Clown Trigger Losing vision. (Possible Cataracts?)

[WallyB]

I got this Juvenille Clown Trigger Back in June 2021. PHOTO IN (10G QT Tank), after QT he was moved into Display Tank and has been doing well. Very sociable, like a dog.

He has been growing and living in my Display Tank with a couple of Tangs, and pair of Clown Fish for over a year. That tank has been disease-free for years. He was the last fish added. All fish get along very well.
This is him today .

In past with Laser-sharp-Vision he could zip around the tank and get most of the food before other fish. I had to feed at both ends of tank so other fish would get some. The tank is fed frozen brine shrimp, Mysis, Nori, pellets, and specifically for the Trigger Chopped up Frozen (Costco) "RAW, not cooked" Alaskan Jumbo Shrimp....I checked [No additives, perservatives] . The Trigger enjoyed all the food and was always greedy at feeding time.

The last couple of months I notice he is missing food. Trigger is still super fast and has good co-ordination. He still an has appetite but it takes a few attempts to catch the food. He can no longer catch pellets anymore since too small to see. He certainly can see me from a distance since he begs for food like all fish. It's like he is far sighted and needs reading, I mean "Feeding Glasses" . LOL

He doesn't bump into the rockwork or glass and has no issues with vision to pass through rockwork and narrow caves.

To get a better diagnosis on his vision I started putting his chunk of Shrimp on a Nori Clip so it doesn't move around with the current. He smells it and tried to eat the pieces of food (stationary on clip) but misses and ends up hitting tank glass. It does takes a few attempts for Clown to hit the target. This certainly indicates his vision is degrading. I have read that fish can get Cataracts.

Could I do anything to recover his vision by improving his diet since he still is fairly young and will continue to grow?

I do have one suspicion another possible cause. Few months ago I wanted to added some new corals to tank so I put in few Candy Cane Trumpets. Big mistake!! He loved their crunchy stems and ate about 8-10 Trumpet in a period of a 2 months. Not sure if he ate the green flesh part of every trumpet, but I noticed the vision problem after his Coral Crunch Feast. Is is possible the Trumpets were toxic to his vision?

Another thing I noticed when comparing photos on internet of other Clown Triggers is my Clown Trigger has eyes that are much more larger and bulging out. Both eyes look the same and no signs of injury or disease that I recognize.

Can I do something to help restore his vision?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I got this Juvenille Clown Trigger Back in June 2021. PHOTO IN (10G QT Tank), after QT he was moved into Display Tank and has been doing well. Very sociable, like a dog.

He has been growing and living in my Display Tank with a couple of Tangs, and pair of Clown Fish for over a year. That tank has been disease-free for years. He was the last fish added. All fish get along very well.
This is him today .

In past, he could zip around the tank and get most of the food before other fish. The tank is fed frozen brine shrimp, Mysis, Nori, pellets, and specifically for the Trigger Chopped up Frozen Raw Large Alaskan Shrimp (His favorite). The Trigger enjoyed all the food and was always greedy at feeding time.

The last couple of months I notice he is missing food. He still an has appetite but it takes a few attempts to catch the food. He can't catch pellets anymore. He certainly can see me from a distance since he begs for food like all fish.

To get a better diagnosis on his vision I started putting his chunk of Shrimp on a Nori Clip so it doesn't move around with the current. He smells it and tried to eat the pieces of food (stationary on clip) but misses and ends up hitting tank glass. It does takes a few attempts for Clown to hit the target. This certainly indicates his vision is degrading. I have read that fish can get Cataracts.

Could I do anything to recover his vision by improving his diet since he still is fairly young and will continue to grow?

I do have one suspicion another possible cause. Few months ago I wanted to added some new corals to tank so I put in few Candy Cane Trumpets. Big mistake!! He loved their crunchy stems and ate about 8-10 Trumpet in a period of a 2 months. Not sure if he ate the green flesh part of every trumpet, but I noticed the vision problem after his Coral Crunch Feast. Is is possible the Trumpets were toxic to his vision?

Another thing I noticed when comparing photos on internet of other Clown Triggers is my Clown Trigger has eyes that are much more larger and bulging out. Both eyes look the same and no signs of injury or disease that I recognize.

Can I do something to help restore his vision?

This looks like it may be retina damage but also could be flukes.
Other than eye, is fish eating and breathing normal?
Assuming not fluke related which im doubtful, may have stemmed from scratch or minor injury while going after the coral which have sharp skeletal housing and best treatment in a quarantine setting is Maracyn AKA maracyn 1 which is ethromyacin for at least 5 days and add aeration during treatment

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for the very complete post. I’ve never heard of eating corals causing blindness. Fish can develop cataracts, and not all are caused by age, but I’m not sure of what the other causes are - vitamin deficiency I think, perhaps E or B1?
Here is an article I wrote some years ago on fish eye health:

Aquarium Fish: The ‘Eyes’ Have it: A Review of Eye Health in Aquarium Fishes

Aquarists need to inspect their fish closely every day, for signs of impending health problems. It is much easier to resolve a problem when it first starts, than to attempt a drastic emergency treatment when the fish is close to dying.

reefs.com

Jay

 

[WallyB]

This looks like it may be retina damage but also could be flukes.
Other than eye, is fish eating and breathing normal?
Assuming not fluke related which im doubtful, may have stemmed from scratch or minor injury while going after the coral which have sharp skeletal housing and best treatment in a quarantine setting is Maracyn AKA maracyn 1 which is ethromyacin for at least 5 days and add aeration during treatment

He is perfectly healthy. Eating, breathing, active and relaxed. I see no damage to eyes. If injury then why are both eyes affected, since tought to poke two eyes on opposite side at same time. If one eye was good from a injury he should be able to catch food. I once had a one eye'd fish that ate fine. He simply isn't seeing close up. This has been going on for at least 2 months. Hard to say if getting worse at this point.

Removing him for treatment would take a trap. I know a buddy I can borrow one from. Taking on a big job of catching him would be big effort. On the other hand, he is hungry, can't see weel.... it may be easy to catch him. Either way, I really would like to leave removing him from tank for treatment as last resort. He is big and powerful.

As far as what to treat with can anyone point me to a link for best meds to use.

 

[vetteguy53081]

He is perfectly healthy. Eating, breathing, active and relaxed. I see no damage to eyes. If injury then why are both eyes affected, since tought to poke two eyes on opposite side at same time. If one eye was good from a injury he should be able to catch food. I once had a one eye'd fish that ate fine. He simply isn't seeing close up. This has been going on for at least 2 months. Hard to say if getting worse at this point.

Removing him for treatment would take a trap. I know a buddy I can borrow one from. Taking on a big job of catching him would be big effort. On the other hand, he is hungry, can't see weel.... it may be easy to catch him. Either way, I really would like to leave removing him from tank for treatment as last resort. He is big and powerful.

As far as what to treat with can anyone point me to a link for best meds to use.

Did not realize both eyes which often is caused by bacterial issue and instead of maracyn will be treatable with seachem kanaplex is a broad spectrum treatment and addresses cloudy eyes. I now see youre in Canada and another would be acriflavine for treatment but will take a little longer to treat eyes

 

[WallyB]

Thanks for the very complete post. I’ve never heard of eating corals causing blindness. Fish can develop cataracts, and not all are caused by age, but I’m not sure of what the other causes are - vitamin deficiency I think, perhaps E or B1?
Here is an article I wrote some years ago on fish eye health:

Aquarium Fish: The ‘Eyes’ Have it: A Review of Eye Health in Aquarium Fishes

Aquarists need to inspect their fish closely every day, for signs of impending health problems. It is much easier to resolve a problem when it first starts, than to attempt a drastic emergency treatment when the fish is close to dying.

reefs.com

Jay,

@Jay Hemdal ,

Fantastic Article. So complete. Helps so much.

First thing I'm going to do is pull out my SLR and get a setup to do some closeup of the Triggers Eyes. See close up and clear images.

I'm leaning on Vitamin Deficiency since visions seem to be both eyes, and no visible injury to one eye.

This may be coincidental since I haven't been able to get the Hakari Clams on Half Shells in Canada anymore. The Trigger use to eat that as the primary meal. Maybe Jumbo shrimp alone is missing something (ie Vitamin, or too fatty).

It may be even that he is actually not getting enough food PERIOD. I was thinking today to head over to the local FOOD fish store near my place that sells fresh frozen seafood. Get some squid, clams, and mussels to improve his diet. I may have to give him larger pieces he can see and chomp on. If his vision can be restored, then I can feed him smaller pieces again since feeding a Trigger Large Portions is a messy ordeal.

Of course as @vetteguy53081 mentions, treatment may also be needed.

If I catch him, I can do both in a QT tank. (Treat with MEDS and Pig-Feed him). I have a brand new 20G QT that I got for Christmas. Putting the Larger Trigger in a new un-aged QT need attention for ammonia and nitritrites.

For Meds I do have Seachem-Metroplex, Seachem ParaGuard API Furan-2, API General Cure. Some might be expired, if not all.

I'm calling @tenurepro tomorrow and asking to borrow his fish Trap. I have a aged 10G QT all ready to go. It has frags, but they can be moved.

 

[WallyB]

I'm in luck. I checked my shelf. I have one box of Meds (Full and unopened). Expired 06/2022. It should still be good.

This looks to be a possible treatment, for Eye Cloud.

Check the Box out.

My trigger does have cloudy eyes (compared to stock photos), and this could be the fix.

 

[lion king]

Did you happen to treat him with copper, run copper in your qt. I have ended up stick feeding several triggers in the end after going blind over the years. I have loosely connected this to previous copper treatment. I'm asking for my own compilation of information. I have target fed with a stick a few triggers that ended up living a few more years after apparently losing their sight. If you are sure they are losing their sight, it is best to establish a stick feeding routine before their eyesight gets bad enough for them to retreat behind the rocks and die.

 

[WallyB]

Did you happen to treat him with copper, run copper in your qt. I have ended up stick feeding several triggers in the end after going blind over the years. I have loosely connected this to previous copper treatment. I'm asking for my own compilation of information. I have target fed with a stick a few triggers that ended up living a few more years after apparently losing their sight. If you are sure they are losing their sight, it is best to establish a stick feeding routine before their eyesight gets bad enough for them to retreat behind the rocks and die.

So are you saying you had many blind triggers over the years? Wow! When I googled for info there wasn't much out there. I thought I was the only one.

I never treated My Clown Trigger in QT with anything. He was healthy coming from store, stayed healthy under QT observation and food training... Then he went into Display tank when he outgrew the 10G QT (about 8 months).

Thanks for the Stick Feeding Idea. I assume you just use a wooden dowel stick and attach food with rubber band. Right? I will start STICK training him right away while his vision is so-so. I guess he will eventually die if this is not treatable. Giving him a few more years is better than nothing. The family feeds him and will enjoy improving his life. Anyone with a Trigger know they are very smart and socialble. My Trigger watches Soap Opera's with my wife all the time since he sees our Rec Room TV.

I'm still going to treat him with Furan-2 since a cure may be possiblen. I posted about exactly these two observations on back of Furan-2 Box.

I am going to document the whole catch, QT and treatment and hopefully return to the Display tank on this thread. I've already started tidying things up in my fish room.

More to come ....

.... Follow along

 

[lion king]

So are you saying you had many blind triggers over the years? Wow! When I googled for info there wasn't much out there. I thought I was the only one.

I never treated My Clown Trigger in QT with anything. He was healthy coming from store, stayed healthy under QT observation and food training... Then he went into Display tank when he outgrew the 10G QT (about 8 months).

Thanks for the Stick Feeding Idea. I assume you just use a wooden dowel stick and attach food with rubber band. Right? I will start STICK training him right away while his vision is so-so. I guess he will eventually die if this is not treatable. Giving him a few more years is better than nothing. The family feeds him and will enjoy improving his life. Anyone with a Trigger know they are very smart and socialble. My Trigger watches Soap Opera's with my wife all the time since he sees our Rec Room TV.

I'm still going to treat him with Furan-2 since a cure may be possiblen. I posted about exactly these two observations on back of Furan-2 Box.

I am going to document the whole catch, QT and treatment and hopefully return to the Display tank on this thread. I've already started tidying things up in my fish room.

More to come ....

.... Follow along

I have personally had 3 triggers go blind, all had been treated with copper. I have conferred with a few other hobbyist that experienced the same thing, if you search this site you will find others that have had the same experience. My other connection is possible cyanide poisoning, which is impossible to connect, because you really never know if this has happened or not. Or maybe a combination of both that creates a binary situation.

Stick feeding, a clear rigid airline tube from the lfs. Cut an angle at the end to pierce chunks of food, you can bend the tube/stick around to allow you to maneuver it around the tank. My blind triggers ate better than the rest of the tank, I spoiled them so much. Chunks of salmon, scallop, shrimp, silversides, whatever seafood chunks they like.

Pinktail Trigger blind?

Maybe someone here can give me some ideas on how to take care of fish that has apparently lost most of his eyesight. My pinktail was the king of the tank, a 210 fowlr, for 2 years. Then one day he disappeared behind the rocks, no apparent fighting and as best I could; I could not find any...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[crusso1993]

Hey @WallyB - sorry to hear of the eye concerns with your trigger. Going to be following along to watch what happens with the meds and/or dietary changes. Sending you good vibes!

 

[WallyB]

I have personally had 3 triggers go blind, all had been treated with copper. I have conferred with a few other hobbyist that experienced the same thing, if you search this site you will find others that have had the same experience. My other connection is possible cyanide poisoning, which is impossible to connect, because you really never know if this has happened or not. Or maybe a combination of both that creates a binary situation.

Stick feeding, a clear rigid airline tube from the lfs. Cut an angle at the end to pierce chunks of food, you can bend the tube/stick around to allow you to maneuver it around the tank. My blind triggers ate better than the rest of the tank, I spoiled them so much. Chunks of salmon, scallop, shrimp, silversides, whatever seafood chunks they like.

Pinktail Trigger blind?

Maybe someone here can give me some ideas on how to take care of fish that has apparently lost most of his eyesight. My pinktail was the king of the tank, a 210 fowlr, for 2 years. Then one day he disappeared behind the rocks, no apparent fighting and as best I could; I could not find any...

www.reef2reef.com

Your thread story starts exactly where I am. My trigger can still see better than what you described at the time. I'm hoping I can cure "Shelly" with meds if possible. That's his name. Family calls him Shell-y because he loves picking up clam shells and dropping them to fall spinning like helicopters. Your trigger probably did the same.

However the Stick Feeding you did gave your trigger the best life possible, if not better than the other fish from your description. So the worst case for Shelley is he get's fed better (even blind), and all the other fish also get some peace. Few more years, which is fine since by then he will outgrow my tank. It's only a 90 Gallon, 4ft. I expected him to leave eventually to a bigger tank.

I was wondering how you attached FROZEN sliverside to a smooth flexible stick-tube. I guess you thaw the food and when soft peirce it with the angle cut firm Tubing. I have firm RO tubing which I used to sweep cyano. That will work. GREAT TIP. I will start training him right away and in QT. He will have to get used to tube, but once he get the tasty food he will learn quick. He may have vision problems but he is dumb at all. Smartest fish I ever had.

I have hope.

I hate to ask since maybe I don't want to know, or it won't matter. When your trigger went 100% blind, was he still able to swim around the tank and get around? or just did he hang around a cave where he lived and ate, like other rock dwelling and shy fish.

 

[lion king]

Your thread story starts exactly where I am. My trigger can still see better than what you described at the time. I'm hoping I can cure "Shelly" with meds if possible. That's his name. Family calls him Shell-y because he loves picking up clam shells and dropping them to fall spinning like helicopters. Your trigger probably did the same.

However the Stick Feeding you did gave your trigger the best life possible, if not better than the other fish from your description. So the worst case for Shelley is he get's fed better (even blind), and all the other fish also get some peace. Few more years, which is fine since by then he will outgrow my tank. It's only a 90 Gallon, 4ft. I expected him to leave eventually to a bigger tank.

I was wondering how you attached FROZEN sliverside to a smooth flexible stick-tube. I guess you thaw the food and when soft peirce it with the angle cut firm Tubing. I have firm RO tubing which I used to sweep cyano. That will work. GREAT TIP. I will start training him right away and in QT. He will have to get used to tube, but once he get the tasty food he will learn quick. He may have vision problems but he is dumb at all. Smartest fish I ever had.

I have hope.

I hate to ask since maybe I don't want to know, or it won't matter. When your trigger went 100% blind, was he still able to swim around the tank and get around? or just did he hang around a cave where he lived and ate, like other rock dwelling and shy fish.

Eventually he would live in the rocks and pop up in a couple of different spots, he eventually didn't leave the rocks and open swim, would just wiggle around in a couple of different spots just outside of the spots. He lived over 2 maybe 3 more years. If this is whats going on with your fish, I would not move him. Moving him will disorient him and his familiarity with his current surroundings will help him.

 

[WallyB]

Eventually he would live in the rocks and pop up in a couple of different spots, he eventually didn't leave the rocks and open swim, would just wiggle around in a couple of different spots just outside of the spots. He lived over 2 maybe 3 more years. If this is whats going on with your fish, I would not move him. Moving him will disorient him and his familiarity with his current surroundings will help him.

I don't plan on moving the trigger. The tank is his forever. His decline has been only recent so I am considering moving him temporarily if possible by catching him using a safe fish trap. To treat him in a hospital for 4-5 days. He will go back healed or not to his usual home. It's worth a try to cure him with the Furan-2 that seems to be very appropriate for his symptoms.

Were you suggesting I not treat him by moving to Hospital?

 

[Thomashtom]

I got this Juvenille Clown Trigger Back in June 2021. PHOTO IN (10G QT Tank), after QT he was moved into Display Tank and has been doing well. Very sociable, like a dog.

He has been growing and living in my Display Tank with a couple of Tangs, and pair of Clown Fish for over a year. That tank has been disease-free for years. He was the last fish added. All fish get along very well.
This is him today .

In past with Laser-sharp-Vision he could zip around the tank and get most of the food before other fish. I had to feed at both ends of tank so other fish would get some. The tank is fed frozen brine shrimp, Mysis, Nori, pellets, and specifically for the Trigger Chopped up Frozen (Costco) "RAW, not cooked" Alaskan Jumbo Shrimp....I checked [No additives, perservatives] . The Trigger enjoyed all the food and was always greedy at feeding time.

The last couple of months I notice he is missing food. Trigger is still super fast and has good co-ordination. He still an has appetite but it takes a few attempts to catch the food. He can no longer catch pellets anymore since too small to see. He certainly can see me from a distance since he begs for food like all fish. It's like he is far sighted and needs reading, I mean "Feeding Glasses" . LOL

He doesn't bump into the rockwork or glass and has no issues with vision to pass through rockwork and narrow caves.

To get a better diagnosis on his vision I started putting his chunk of Shrimp on a Nori Clip so it doesn't move around with the current. He smells it and tried to eat the pieces of food (stationary on clip) but misses and ends up hitting tank glass. It does takes a few attempts for Clown to hit the target. This certainly indicates his vision is degrading. I have read that fish can get Cataracts.

Could I do anything to recover his vision by improving his diet since he still is fairly young and will continue to grow?

I do have one suspicion another possible cause. Few months ago I wanted to added some new corals to tank so I put in few Candy Cane Trumpets. Big mistake!! He loved their crunchy stems and ate about 8-10 Trumpet in a period of a 2 months. Not sure if he ate the green flesh part of every trumpet, but I noticed the vision problem after his Coral Crunch Feast. Is is possible the Trumpets were toxic to his vision?

Another thing I noticed when comparing photos on internet of other Clown Triggers is my Clown Trigger has eyes that are much more larger and bulging out. Both eyes look the same and no signs of injury or disease that I recognize.

Can I do something to help restore his vision?

Triggers do like to wedge themselves in rocks when spooked also he could scratched his eye? Thankls

 

[lion king]

I don't plan on moving the trigger. The tank is his forever. His decline has been only recent so I am considering moving him temporarily if possible by catching him using a safe fish trap. To treat him in a hospital for 4-5 days. He will go back healed or not to his usual home. It's worth a try to cure him with the Furan-2 that seems to be very appropriate for his symptoms.

Were you suggesting I not treat him by moving to Hospital?

I understand your desire to try and cure if possible. Sadly I have never seen treatment work, if it's the same. Fish going blind happens way more than people think, most people miss the signs, and by the time the fish retreats to the rocks, it's too late.

The differences, are there any physical signs, are the eyes cloudy. If so then yes treatment is worth a try and a positive outcome. If there are no physical signs and eyes are clear, then the cause of the blindness will likely be beyond the scope of the treatment we have or are aware of

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal ,

Fantastic Article. So complete. Helps so much.

First thing I'm going to do is pull out my SLR and get a setup to do some closeup of the Triggers Eyes. See close up and clear images.

I'm leaning on Vitamin Deficiency since visions seem to be both eyes, and no visible injury to one eye.

This may be coincidental since I haven't been able to get the Hakari Clams on Half Shells in Canada anymore. The Trigger use to eat that as the primary meal. Maybe Jumbo shrimp alone is missing something (ie Vitamin, or too fatty).

It may be even that he is actually not getting enough food PERIOD. I was thinking today to head over to the local FOOD fish store near my place that sells fresh frozen seafood. Get some squid, clams, and mussels to improve his diet. I may have to give him larger pieces he can see and chomp on. If his vision can be restored, then I can feed him smaller pieces again since feeding a Trigger Large Portions is a messy ordeal.

Of course as @vetteguy53081 mentions, treatment may also be needed.

If I catch him, I can do both in a QT tank. (Treat with MEDS and Pig-Feed him). I have a brand new 20G QT that I got for Christmas. Putting the Larger Trigger in a new un-aged QT need attention for ammonia and nitritrites.

For Meds I do have Seachem-Metroplex, Seachem ParaGuard API Furan-2, API General Cure. Some might be expired, if not all.

I'm calling @tenurepro tomorrow and asking to borrow his fish Trap. I have a aged 10G QT all ready to go. It has frags, but they can be moved.

First, can you try and determine if this is a cloudy eye issue, cataracts, or both? If the lens is cloudy, but the surface (sclera) is clear, then that is a true cataract. If just the sclera is cloudy, but the lens is clear, that can be from mucus, an injury or a bacterial infection. If both are cloudy - well, then all bets are off (grin).

I do not see any indication that this issue is due to parasites like flukes, as other fish would then have similar symptoms. I am not a big fan of moving fish and dosing with antibiotics. The fish has a chronic issue that is gradually getting worse, moving it and stressing it out could create an acute issue.

I've dosed hundreds of triggers with amine-based copper and have never had one go blind, so I think that is a red herring.

Jay

 

[devocole]

My tangs had cloudy eyes after first introduction. Took a full round of general cure to rid the flukes.

 

[vetteguy53081]

First, can you try and determine if this is a cloudy eye issue, cataracts, or both? If the lens is cloudy, but the surface (sclera) is clear, then that is a true cataract. If just the sclera is cloudy, but the lens is clear, that can be from mucus, an injury or a bacterial infection. If both are cloudy - well, then all bets are off (grin).

I do not see any indication that this issue is due to parasites like flukes, as other fish would then have similar symptoms. I am not a big fan of moving fish and dosing with antibiotics. The fish has a chronic issue that is gradually getting worse, moving it and stressing it out could create an acute issue.

I've dosed hundreds of triggers with amine-based copper and have never had one go blind, so I think that is a red herring.

Jay

Ive never had copper and trigger go blind from treatment either but he did state both eyes are affected

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'm in luck. I checked my shelf. I have one box of Meds (Full and unopened). Expired 06/2022. It should still be good.

This looks to be a possible treatment, for Eye Cloud.

Check the Box out.

My trigger does have cloudy eyes (compared to stock photos), and this could be the fix.

Wow - you have Furan- Cant be found anywhere- What is expiration on package ?