Clown Trigger Losing vision. (Possible Cataracts?)

[lion king]

Ive never had copper and trigger go blind from treatment either but he did state both eyes are affected

Im just trying to connect the dots. These triggers took more than a year to a few years to go blind. I predicted a niger going blind after 2 copper treatments, he was blind in 6 months. A cause doesn't need to immediately happen to be a cause. I also asked if it were a binary contributor, something else already in the triggers system. I've seen it enough to question, and it's not like 100%, because one person has it and another does not, does not mean it is not a contributing factor. Seeing this is another reason prophylactic treatment with copper is again, just too high of a risk.

Hobbyist have this thing, if it doesn't happen right away, then whatever it was has no bearing on the end. They thing if the fish doesn't die or go blind while in the copper, that somehow the copper had no influence or their blindness or early demise.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Im just trying to connect the dots. These triggers took more than a year to a few years to go blind. I predicted a niger going blind after 2 copper treatments, he was blind in 6 months. A cause doesn't need to immediately happen to be a cause. I also asked if it were a binary contributor, something else already in the triggers system. I've seen it enough to question, and it's not like 100%, because one person has it and another does not, does not mean it is not a contributing factor. Seeing this is another reason prophylactic treatment with copper is again, just too high of a risk.

Ive seen nigers with cloudy eyes which seems to be common and not sure if copper related . Some of my LFS tanks had copper in them and I sold humu, blue line, undulated, piccasso and clown and not of them contracted this But they were also young

 

[seafansar]

Hi! Fellow blind fish owner here. I have a percula clownfish that is blind. Not sure what caused it and I never tried treating it. She’s been blind for 5 yrs or so. I hand feed her frozen cubes and she does pretty well swimming around her anemones. If she gets too far from her nems, she will bump around until she finds them again.
A few year ago, I also had a blind or farsighted cleaner wrasse and had to teach him to eat frozen food from a mesh bag on the side of the tank. He took to that well, thankfully, and I think eventually died of old age. He was at least 7yrs old.
Fingers crossed any medications you try work. But if not, all is not lost. With some food training, blind fish can live decent lives.

 

[lion king]

Ive seen nigers with cloudy eyes which seems to be common and not sure if copper related . Some of my LFS tanks had copper in them and I sold humu, blue line, undulated, piccasso and clown and not of them contracted this But they were also young

I have also had triggers from lfs that run copper, for more than decade healthy. Lfs are usually running sub-theaputic levels, so there are variables. The concentration and length of exposure will be a contributor, this is also true for other species that are known to do badly exposed to copper. Many want this black and white answer, absolute, this hobby is not absolute. Organ failure many doesn't happen overnight, or blindness.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have also had triggers from lfs that run copper, for more than decade healthy. Lfs are usually running sub-theaputic levels, so there are variables. The concentration and length of exposure will be a contributor, this is also true for other species that are known to do badly exposed to copper. Many want this black and white answer, absolute, this hobby is not absolute. Organ failure many doesn't happen overnight, or blindness.

I agree

 

[WallyB]

Here is best photo I could get today. Left Eye.

BTW> The Stick Feeding works. He'll eat out of my hand, but stick help to reach into his cave. He grabs the food which is good news. Going to get some more fresh food variety today.

 

[WallyB]

@Jay Hemdal , I'm just planning for a possible treatment. Not doing anything yet.

Can you explain what the proper dose and treatment is for Furan-2. This instruction is a bit confusing.

What does "total of "4" doses" mean? It's says repeat 2nd time.

Let's say 10Gallon QT. Would this mean 1 packet on day 1? (day 2) 24 hours later, another packet, Then 24 hours later (day 3), first 25% water change. Repeat above for total of 4 packets. Total 1x treatment time is 6 days.



I have a full pack of Furan-2, Expiring June 2022, which should be still ok to use. Certainly won't be able to aquired any new Furan-2 since impossible to get these days.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal , I'm just planning for a possible treatment. Not doing anything yet.

Can you explain what the proper dose and treatment is for Furan-2. This instruction is a bit confusing.

What does "total of "4" doses" mean? It's says repeat 2nd time.

Let's say 10Gallon QT. Would this mean 1 packet on day 1? (day 2) 24 hours later, another packet, Then 24 hours later (day 3), first 25% water change. Repeat above for total of 4 packets. Total 1x treatment time is 6 days.



I have a full pack of Furan-2, Expiring June 2022, which should be still ok to use. Certainly won't be able to aquired any new Furan-2 since impossible to get these days.

I can follow the instructions, but I can’t explain the reason why they do it that way. I haven’t used furan for many years, and then, mostly in freshwater, sorry.
Jay

 

[lion king]

Here is best photo I could get today. Left Eye.

BTW> The Stick Feeding works. He'll eat out of my hand, but stick help to reach into his cave. He grabs the food which is good news. Going to get some more fresh food variety today.

Eye looks cloudy which would not be in line with the experiences I have shared about blindness. In my cases there were no physical signs at all, eyes were clear and completely normal all the way up to death. I'm not sold on possible cataracts on such a young fish, and they are fine to tolerate high light not like crosshatch triggers.

I've cleared cloudy eyes on lions and scorps without meds by maintaining optimum water conditions and a quality diet. So 1st make sure your water quality is as perfect as you can make it, nitrates well below 30ppm. What are you feeding, fresh seafood mix from the human market or lrs chunky to provide the ultimate nutrition. If he eats pellets mix in some algae pellets and Saki-Hikari marine carnivore which has a high amount of vitamin c, or you can stuff some in chunks.

The way I've used furan-2, 1st in a hospital tank with no porous material; day 1 - 1 pkg per 10g, day 2 - repeat dose, day 3 - 25% water change and repeat dose, day 4 - repeat dose, day 5 - 25% water change and remove remaining with carbon or your choice of media.

 

[WallyB]

Eye looks cloudy which would not be in line with the experiences I have shared about blindness. In my cases there were no physical signs at all, eyes were clear and completely normal all the way up to death. I'm not sold on possible cataracts on such a young fish, and they are fine to tolerate high light not like crosshatch triggers.

I've cleared cloudy eyes on lions and scorps without meds by maintaining optimum water conditions and a quality diet. So 1st make sure your water quality is as perfect as you can make it, nitrates well below 30ppm. What are you feeding, fresh seafood mix from the human market or lrs chunky to provide the ultimate nutrition. If he eats pellets mix in some algae pellets and Saki-Hikari marine carnivore which has a high amount of vitamin c, or you can stuff some in chunks.

The way I've used furan-2, 1st in a hospital tank with no porous material; day 1 - 1 pkg per 10g, day 2 - repeat dose, day 3 - 25% water change and repeat dose, day 4 - repeat dose, day 5 - 25% water change and remove remaining with carbon or your choice of media.

Thanks @lion king . You are giving me hope. I was thinking the same. Too young for Caratacts, but didn't hurt to ask.

I keep my SPS tank Nitrate just arount 1ppm. LPS tank 5 ppm. This Trigger tank has had all corals destroyed with Trigger so I haven't done water change in quite some time. I just measured Nitrate. Many months ago it was around 25. Now it's Off the charts on the Salifert Test kit. Over 100ppm. Could be trigger growing up and eatting more thus poluting tank.

My other two tanks have daily auto water changer, but this one is run by Lazy-Me. Been a few months. I just did 25% water change. Another tomorrow and will keep at it till the nitrates get down.

Will hold off on removing trigger for Hosptial Treatment using Furan-2. No rush on meds at this point. I'm training him to eat on stick, and since he can't even see the stick (Have to shove it in his mouth), I think netting him will be easy with his current vision problem.

 

[lion king]

Thank @lion king . You are giving me hope. I was thinking the same. Too young for Caratacts, but didn't hurt to ask.

I keep my SPS tank Nitrate just arount 1ppm. LPS tank 5 ppm. This Trigger tank has had all corals destroyed with Trigger so I haven't done water change in quite some time. I just measures Nitrate. Off the charts on the Salifert Test kit. Over 100.

My other two tank have auto water changer, but this one is run by Lazy-Me. Been a few months. I just did 25% water change. Another tomorrow and will keep at it till the nitrates get down.

Will hold off on removing trigger for Hosptial Treatment using Furan-2. No rush on meds at this point. I'm training him to eat on stick, and since he can't even see the stick, I think netting him will be easy with his current vision problem.

I was wondering how something gets introduced into a tank when it's been a while since a new addition. Some theories, and I hold this theory, that there's many things already living in our tanks just waiting for the right circumstance. Allowing the water quality to slip may have allowed a bacteria to bloom and attack the trigger's eyes. Access his diet because perhaps also a nutritional deficiency compromised his immune system and allowed the bacteria to take hold. Most people's 1st response is to grab the antibiotics, which sounds like a good course, but also cleaning up the water quality and boosting up his nutrition is also a good course. The only worry of waiting is because there is a fine line when it may advance too far. If it is a bacteria that could be treated with an antibiotic, there's a line where healing it may save his eyesight, and waiting too long his eyesight may be permanently damaged.

 

[WallyB]

Quick Update.

- The Clown Triggers still comes out of caves to swim around in open areas of tank when hungry, which is a good sign. He is eating well and now I am feeding more fresh raw foods.

- First 25% water change done over weekend

I have a bottle of MELAFIX which I used in past to heal a badly bitten tail on Angel fish in QT. https://apifishcare.com/product/melafix

MELAFIX seems safe to use in Aquarium to naturally treat "eye-cloud". Started the 7 Day Treatment in the Display Tank. Worth a try since I don't want to upset the trigger by moving him from his comfort zone.

 

[WallyB]

Another Update: Melafix Treatment done for 7 days. Just added Carbon and did water change.

His eyes still look cloudy however I do notice I see his pupil more and he moves it around to look.

He is coming out more. Mostly in morning when hungry and then goes back to cave. While he is out I feed him medium sized chunks of raw food and he can see food, catch it after a couple of tries. He seems bigger after spending lots of time in Cave enjoying being STICK FED.

I'll watch him for a week or two and see if things naturally get better. Furan will be last resort if he get worse.

At this point he seems to be getting better not worse

 

[Weeb]

I got this Juvenille Clown Trigger Back in June 2021. PHOTO IN (10G QT Tank), after QT he was moved into Display Tank and has been doing well. Very sociable, like a dog.

He has been growing and living in my Display Tank with a couple of Tangs, and pair of Clown Fish for over a year. That tank has been disease-free for years. He was the last fish added. All fish get along very well.
This is him today .

In past with Laser-sharp-Vision he could zip around the tank and get most of the food before other fish. I had to feed at both ends of tank so other fish would get some. The tank is fed frozen brine shrimp, Mysis, Nori, pellets, and specifically for the Trigger Chopped up Frozen (Costco) "RAW, not cooked" Alaskan Jumbo Shrimp....I checked [No additives, perservatives] . The Trigger enjoyed all the food and was always greedy at feeding time.

The last couple of months I notice he is missing food. Trigger is still super fast and has good co-ordination. He still an has appetite but it takes a few attempts to catch the food. He can no longer catch pellets anymore since too small to see. He certainly can see me from a distance since he begs for food like all fish. It's like he is far sighted and needs reading, I mean "Feeding Glasses" . LOL

He doesn't bump into the rockwork or glass and has no issues with vision to pass through rockwork and narrow caves.

To get a better diagnosis on his vision I started putting his chunk of Shrimp on a Nori Clip so it doesn't move around with the current. He smells it and tried to eat the pieces of food (stationary on clip) but misses and ends up hitting tank glass. It does takes a few attempts for Clown to hit the target. This certainly indicates his vision is degrading. I have read that fish can get Cataracts.

Could I do anything to recover his vision by improving his diet since he still is fairly young and will continue to grow?

I do have one suspicion another possible cause. Few months ago I wanted to added some new corals to tank so I put in few Candy Cane Trumpets. Big mistake!! He loved their crunchy stems and ate about 8-10 Trumpet in a period of a 2 months. Not sure if he ate the green flesh part of every trumpet, but I noticed the vision problem after his Coral Crunch Feast. Is is possible the Trumpets were toxic to his vision?

Another thing I noticed when comparing photos on internet of other Clown Triggers is my Clown Trigger has eyes that are much more larger and bulging out. Both eyes look the same and no signs of injury or disease that I recognize.

Can I do something to help restore his vision?

Check the water's iodine level. Keep iodine in the normal range. Try getting some supplements into the fish's diet, if you haven't already. Check out the Fish Nutrition post when you can.

 

[WallyB]

Check the water's iodine level. Keep iodine in the normal range. Try getting some supplements into the fish's diet, if you haven't already. Check out the Fish Nutrition post when you can.

I've never checked Iodine Levels since last ICP ages ago, however it should be fine since I do daily 1 Gallon auto water changes on this 90 Gal Tank+20G sump. That's approx 30% water change per month.

I am trying to get some variety in his diet by getting hard to find silversides. Till I get some I bought a bottle of Boyd Enterprise VitaChem(Marine). I'll soak his food however the instruction say I can dose 1 drop per gallon (Once a week) into tank water for fish vitamin consumption. just added 110 drops.

Just to give you an Idea how the trigger is today. Does come out, but you clearly see his "miss" attempt at trying to pick up a chunk of Raw Shrimp Stuck to pump.

He does see distance to get around the tank but appears to be significantly far sighted.


Should his eyes be that bulgy? I have looked at lots of Online Clown Trigger Photo's and generally they do have large eye, but not like my trigger.

He does get (Stick & rubberBand) fed, and today I bought large tweezers to make feeding him easier.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I've never checked Iodine Levels since last ICP ages ago, however it should be fine since I do daily 1 Gallon auto water changes on this 90 Gal Tank+20G sump. That's approx 30% water change per month.

I am trying to get some variety in his diet by getting hard to find silversides. Till I get some I bought a bottle of Boyd Enterprise VitaChem(Marine). I'll soak his food however the instruction say I can dose 1 drop per gallon (Once a week) into tank water for fish vitamin consumption. just added 110 drops.

Just to give you an Idea how the trigger is today. Does come out, but you clearly see his "miss" attempt at trying to pick up a chunk of Raw Shrimp Stuck to pump.

He does see distance to get around the tank but appears to be significantly far sighted.


Should his eyes be that bulgy? I have looked at lots of Online Clown Trigger Photo's and generally they do have large eye, but not like my trigger.

He does get (Stick & rubberBand) fed, and today I bought large tweezers to make feeding him easier.

I could see the bulging eyes even in the video. That is called exopthalmia / popeye and can be caused by a few different things. I’ve never really noticed vision impairment like this fish has from mild popeye though. Causes of this include gas supersaturation, mycobacterium, fat deposits behind the eye. If it was just in one eye, it could be due to an injury.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

I've never checked Iodine Levels since last ICP ages ago, however it should be fine since I do daily 1 Gallon auto water changes on this 90 Gal Tank+20G sump. That's approx 30% water change per month.

I am trying to get some variety in his diet by getting hard to find silversides. Till I get some I bought a bottle of Boyd Enterprise VitaChem(Marine). I'll soak his food however the instruction say I can dose 1 drop per gallon (Once a week) into tank water for fish vitamin consumption. just added 110 drops.

Just to give you an Idea how the trigger is today. Does come out, but you clearly see his "miss" attempt at trying to pick up a chunk of Raw Shrimp Stuck to pump.

He does see distance to get around the tank but appears to be significantly far sighted.


Should his eyes be that bulgy? I have looked at lots of Online Clown Trigger Photo's and generally they do have large eye, but not like my trigger.

He does get (Stick & rubberBand) fed, and today I bought large tweezers to make feeding him easier.

I see some symptoms as well with mild popeye and this is Not a nutrition or iodine issue and iodine is not meant to be consistently added without monitoring the levels.
Some things that cause popeye are poor water quality (one of the most common causes, Nutritional deficiency in which a fish this size is not subject to, contaminants from external source, gas embolism caused by a sudden rise in tank temperature or micro bubbles, and even heavy copper exposure. High nitrates with the type of food it eats will be one to monitor.

 

[Weeb]

how the trigger is today

Thanks for the video.

Yeah. This is Popeye (not the sailor). I've seen this a few times just recently, in adult Triggerfishes. Nothing to do with the iodine content. I'd first treat the fish for a bacterial infection.

Got to get some variety in its diet. These fish eat he whole organism, not just a tail. Move towards whole (head-on) raw shrimp. Might try leaving the shrimp exoskeleton on (remove the feet and antennae). If you have a concern about introducing parasites or diseases from the raw shrimp, then soak it in RODI for two hours and then freeze it for a few days. Thaw, then feed.

You might get a few live freshwater snails and drop one near this fish. Soak all foods in Vita-Chem. Follow recommendations for adding supplements to foods for an ill fish. Hope this fish turns around and gets better.