Clownfish breathing rapidly, looking for advice

[re76]

At the LFS i work at, we wouldn't give you anything for it. The best we would do is give you a discount on another one, but that's rare. If your LFS will do better, then go ahead and try. The worst they can say is no. Just be prepared for that because most LFS do not have any guarantees on their livestock especially saltwater. Clowns don't have to be in pairs. They can do just fine on their own. If you want a pair, I'd wait until the first one is done with QT before getting another. The risk of introducing yet another parasite or pathogen to the so-far OK clown is high and complicates the QT process.

The selfish part of me really wants to come out of this ordeal with two clownfish in my tank. If this one bites it overnight how bad would it be to get another, assume it has whatever this one has, and to throw it into the QT with the so-far OK clown?

Once again I sincerely appreciate all the help you are providing. I don't know what I would be doing now otherwise.

 

[melypr1985]

The selfish part of me really wants to come out of this ordeal with two clownfish in my tank. If this one bites it overnight how bad would it be to get another, assume it has whatever this one has, and to throw it into the QT with the so-far OK clown?

Once again I sincerely appreciate all the help you are providing. I don't know what I would be doing now otherwise.

Anytime. If the new clown came from the same system as the other two and was part of the same group (same order) then you're probably not risking much. Just don't make a habit of adding fish to an existing "group" of fish in QT. This would be a one time special circumstance.

 

[re76]

Anytime. If the new clown came from the same system as the other two and was part of the same group (same order) then you're probably not risking much. Just don't make a habit of adding fish to an existing "group" of fish in QT. This would be a one time special circumstance.

I understand. The risk seems pretty minimal to me at this point since I don't really view this QT (the abandoned TTM) as having formally started. Essentially I spent two days on a failed TTM and started over with copper instead. If I understand correctly this is an alternative but equally effective treatment for Ich which is what I originally set out to accomplish with TTM.

 

[melypr1985]

I understand. The risk seems pretty minimal to me at this point since I don't really view this QT (the abandoned TTM) as having formally started. Essentially I spent two days on a failed TTM and started over with copper instead. If I understand correctly this is an alternative but equally effective treatment for Ich which is what I originally set out to accomplish with TTM.

Very true on both points. Though the TTM wasn't failed. You just had to adjust your methods according to the symptoms displayed by the fish in qt. That's normal. You're doing just fine here.

 

[re76]

Alright. I turned off the lights for the night. Added some more RO water. So far it hasn't made a ton of difference in the Salinity. I could exchange some tank water for RO but then I would be removing Cupramine.

I'm just going to leave it where it is at for now, which is about 1.023. Started at 1.024.

I have two air stones running and all lights out, heater set at 74. I'm afraid to go to 72 since my basement gets a bit cold at night.

I will give an update in the morning! I'm really hoping the copper and cool temperature help out enough to get him through the night. He is breathing heavy on the bottom now. He had a few moments where he seemed to be swimming normally, but then went back to laying on the bottom. I'm hopefully optimistic!

 

[re76]

Just went down to check on them. They are both still alive. Healthy one is sleeping. Sick one is laying on his side still breathing pretty heavy but hanging in there! Will give another update in a few hours.

 

[re76]

Welp, he didn't make it. The other one seems to be doing well still.

He's probably wondering why it's so gosh darn cold. I bumped the heater back up to 78.

He still hasn't really taken any food since I brought him home on Sunday. I have some PE mysis soaking in a slurry of RO water and a minced fresh garlic clove. I think I will try that tonight.

I'm working on tracking down a salifert or Seachem copper test kit. I will also most likely pick up another clown today and send him through this QT along with the survivor.

 

[Brew12]

Welp, he didn't make it. The other one seems to be doing well still.

He's probably wondering why it's so gosh darn cold. I bumped the heater back up to 78.

He still hasn't really taken any food since I brought him home on Sunday. I have some PE mysis soaking in a slurry of RO water and a minced fresh garlic clove. I think I will try that tonight.

I'm working on tracking down a salifert or Seachem copper test kit. I will also most likely pick up another clown today and send him through this QT along with the survivor.

Sorry to see you lost your clown. Looks like you did everything right. I think it is a sad truth in this hobby that even when we do our best, some fish just won't make it.
You got this learning experience very early. Not only will you be much better prepared if you come across something like this again, but it shows why QT is important if your name isn't PaulB!
Fish can look just fine in the store, but until you have had them home for longer term observation you never know how healthy they really are.

 

[re76]

Sorry to see you lost your clown. Looks like you did everything right. I think it is a sad truth in this hobby that even when we do our best, some fish just won't make it.
You got this learning experience very early. Not only will you be much better prepared if you come across something like this again, but it shows why QT is important if your name isn't PaulB!
Fish can look just fine in the store, but until you have had them home for longer term observation you never know how healthy they really are.

As stressful as this has been, I would agree that this was a great learning experience. I am trying to learn as much as possible from this so that I can hope to prevent it in the future.

What steps can I take next time to reduce the stress on new fish?

When picking out fish at the LFS what are telltale signs to look for when trying to avoid unhealthy fish?

What is the best way to get a new fish to eat after you take them home? How long should you wait?

Should lights stay out by default for brand new fish in QT?

 

[jenreefer]

As stressful as this has been, I would agree that this was a great learning experience. I am trying to learn as much as possible from this so that I can hope to prevent it in the future.

What steps can I take next time to reduce the stress on new fish?

When picking out fish at the LFS what are telltale signs to look for when trying to avoid unhealthy fish?

What is the best way to get a new fish to eat after you take them home? How long should you wait?

Should lights stay out by default for brand new fish in QT?

I know this has been stressful for you, and unfortunately for the fish. Be glad that he died in QT and not in main tank. There is no way to prevent stress on fish being transported, etc.
When I visit fish stores, my main criteria for if I would/should buy a fish there is how do all their fish look, not just the one I am interested in. Most stores use one large system to process water for all store tanks, so one sick fish, means everyone is potentially exposed. I specifically look at the powder blue and hippo tangs as they are usually the first to show signs of illness. Unfortunately, in many of the larger chain stores, there is always at least one sick fish. In the locally owned and operated, it can be the same, so get to know your stores and how they manage incoming specimens. Do they dip everything, do they run copper in their tanks, are all tanks connected. Knowing these things and having a good relationship with the lfs will help you to know which ones are reputable (I still dip and QT) and which are letting their fish become immune or die. Both have merit (talk to Paul B) but I am way to far into this to spend money on fish that are already compromised. I have been known to wait after fish arrive at lfs for at least one month before purchase. This way they have proven that they are healthy. If they sell before then, I am ok with that as someone else is taking the risk of them perishing. But that is me. Also, I ask the lfs to feed the fish and I observe them eating and see what is being fed. Just another way to see if they feel well enough to eat. If they are not eating, I am not buying. Period.
Hope this helps

 

[beaslbob]

anychance of getting chaeto in there?

have you checked for ammonia and low ph?

 

[re76]

anychance of getting chaeto in there?

have you checked for ammonia and low ph?

I don't think I have the lighting to support Chaeto. The one remaining clown is now in the 30 gallon tank with the initial dose of cupramine I added yesterday.

Ammonia is zero, and pH is fine. Last I checked it is hovering around 8.

 

[beaslbob]

hopefully that one will make it.

 

[re76]

hopefully that one will make it.

I will give another update when I get home today.

 

[re76]

So the other fish who was healthy has started exhibiting the same erratic swimming symptoms as the now dead clownfish. He is essentially just doing backflips and corkscrews. When I came home he was resting on he bottom under the sponge.

My LFS gave me half off another clown today. I got the smallest one in the tank and brought him home. He seems to be doing well. He is in the same tank as the now declining clown.

Beneath the clown that I think will soon be dieing much like his partner, I saw what appears to be a small worm. I THOUGHT I saw it fall out/off of him but I'm not sure. He might have just stirred it up during his swimming.

A picture is below:

For scale:

Does this look like any sort of recognizable parasite? It is possible he fell into the tank from the ceiling, but I wanted to include the pictures in case it might actually be a parasite.

 

[re76]

Also I got a test kit and copper from cupramine is between 0.3 and 0.4

 

[Brew12]

It looks more like an amphipod to me, but I'm not great at identification.

 

[Wayneb332]

Not one that I have seen. I would keep up the copper and just try to let them go some. I think the more you keep changing water adds to the stress. When I QT I try to let them go for about three days in the same tank with continued treatment then on the fourth day new tank and new water from my tank and monitor and treat as needed. Then I take the first tank clean everything and let dry thoroughly. Just how I do it and have had luck after the fourth day in that tank new water and tank again. Just how I do it everyone has thier own I guess I keep doing that for a month and see from there

 

[re76]

Not one that I have seen. I would keep up the copper and just try to let them go some. I think the more you keep changing water adds to the stress. When I QT I try to let them go for about three days in the same tank with continued treatment then on the fourth day new tank and new water from my tank and monitor and treat as needed. Then I take the first tank clean everything and let dry thoroughly. Just how I do it and have had luck after the fourth day in that tank new water and tank again. Just how I do it everyone has thier own I guess I keep doing that for a month and see from there

They have been in the same tank now ever since I gave up on TTM. I don't plan on moving them again. I am going to let the copper run its course.

 

[re76]

For clarification about my numbering system. I started with two fish. Fish 1 died. I thought fish two was going to die last night. Fish three is the new guy I bought yesterday to replace fish 1.

I went downstairs this morning to find fish 2 swimming happily around the tank! This makes me so happy! I thought he was a goner for sure. It appears the copper is helping him get through whatever he had. I'm assuming it is the same as fish 1 but I think treatment started too late to save fish 1.

I tried some mysis this morning and neither fish were interested. I'm going to suck out the food with a turkey Baster and let them sit in the dark again today.

I will try feeding them again tonight.

I'm super hopeful now! Even if fish 3 has the same problem that 1 and 2 have, getting him in copper right away should let him get through it.