Control Heaters w/ Apex or Heater Controllers?

[Desert Darthead]

Newbie here to aquarium controllers and after reading several threads here and Neptune forum, seems like differing opinions on how to use Apex to control heaters. Apex as primary or heater controllers as primary? For a 200 gallon tank, was thinking the following.

Primary heater system:
- BRS controller with 2, 300 watt titanium heaters
- Each heater set to same temp so neither is really primary or secondary and they both are on half as much time if only used one 600 watt
- Controller plugged into EB832 with Apex providing second level control at 2-3 deg higher to kill outlet

Secondary Heater system:
- Separate BRS controller with 1, 300 watt titanium heater
- Controller temp set 2-3 degrees lower to come on if primary allowing tank to get too cold
- Controller plugged into separate EB832 and on separate circuit in house with Apex providing second level control at 2-3 deg higher to kill outlet

Plan to rotate the three heaters every 4 months so each heater is redundant backup 4 months a year and not running - should prolong life of all 3 heaters.

Does this setup make sense or smarter way to do this with better redundancy and control?

 

[Ippyroy]

If you use the Apex, you will kill the expensive EB8 32 by having it cycle on and off all the time. Use the controller and use the Apex as a back up.
Set controller to turn on at 78 and at .3 degree
Plug into Apex
Set Apex on at 75
Hope this helps

 

[Desert Darthead]

If you use the Apex, you will kill the expensive EB8 32 by having it cycle on and off all the time. Use the controller and use the Apex as a back up.
Set controller to turn on at 78 and at .3 degree
Plug into Apex
Set Apex on at 75
Hope this helps

Thanks, that was my thought as well. Would rather kill the controller than the more expensive EB832.

 

[Ippyroy]

That is the exact reaso. I also have the BRS controller and I hate it. I have 2+ degree temp swings. I am looking for a different controller but everything is hard to find right now.

 

[Desert Darthead]

Yeah the BRS controllers are $25 off right now. Seems like all of the heater controllers get mixed ratings. Anyone have a controller they would recommend?

 

[Flux Capacitor]

You can limit how often your apex cycles. Instead of setting the temp to hold with .1 degree, which could be constant on off on off, let the temp swing .5-6. Here is how I have mine:

Heater #1
If Temp < 77.4 Then On
If Temp > 78.0 Then Off

Heater #2
If Temp < 77.4 Then On
If Temp > 78.0 Then Off
Defer 010:00 Then On

Heater #1 is a 200W heater, #2 is 150W.

Heater #1 usually carry’s the load, but when the winter comes around it needs a little help.

 

[Desert Darthead]

Sorry, I am very new to Apex so my understanding of the code is a bit novice. If both heaters have the same set points, how does heater 1 carry the load? I see the defer statement, but I thought that just is a delay time before heater 2 can come back on once goes off? My apologies if I am missing something obvious. With this setup you are letting the Apex directly control and no separate heater controller, correct?

 

[piranhaman00]

Use the Bayite temp controller on amazon, you I’ll need to silicone the metal probe but it detects 0.1F temp changes where as the BRS and inkbird models can only detect like 0.7F so temp can swing a lot. The Bayite keeps my tank within 0.3F which is what I have it set too.

 

[DWill]

Yeah the BRS controllers are $25 off right now. Seems like all of the heater controllers get mixed ratings. Anyone have a controller they would recommend?

Bayite 15A model. .1° resolution and holds calibration we’ll order a InkBird waterproof temp probe to use with it. Both are available on Amazon.

 

[Flux Capacitor]

Sorry, I am very new to Apex so my understanding of the code is a bit novice. If both heaters have the same set points, how does heater 1 carry the load? I see the defer statement, but I thought that just is a delay time before heater 2 can come back on once goes off? My apologies if I am missing something obvious. With this setup you are letting the Apex directly control and no separate heater controller, correct?

Correct I am letting the apex control. I also have 2 energy power bars. I use one outlet on each one for a heater, that way if something happens to one of the power barS at least I’ll still have heat.

The defer statement won’t let heater 2 kick on for 10 mins after the temp drops below 77.4, but if the temp gets back up to 78.0 before the 10 mins is up it just never turns on. Heater 1 is usually able to heat the tank back up, unless it’s a really cold day, without heater 2 ever turning on.

 

[web2323]

So I am new and working on setting up my Apex this week. The heater is my next obstacle to tackle - I am sure there will be other equipment I have questions on. I have the BRS controller/heater. Here is what I was thinking:

Set controller to 78 (.3 degree)

Plug the controller into Apex

Use:

Fallback Off
If Tmp < 75 Then ON
If Tmp > 81 Then OFF

 

[piranhaman00]

So I am new and working on setting up my Apex this week. The heater is my next obstacle to tackle - I am sure there will be other equipment I have questions on. I have the BRS controller/heater. Here is what I was thinking:

Set controller to 78 (.3 degree)

Plug the controller into Apex

Use:

Fallback Off
If Tmp < 75 Then ON
If Tmp > 81 Then OFF

Looks good

 

[TheHarold]

So I am new and working on setting up my Apex this week. The heater is my next obstacle to tackle - I am sure there will be other equipment I have questions on. I have the BRS controller/heater. Here is what I was thinking:

Set controller to 78 (.3 degree)

Plug the controller into Apex

Use:

Fallback Off
If Tmp < 75 Then ON
If Tmp > 81 Then OFF

Not good code. If the heater ever turns off due too hitting 81, it will not turn back on until the tank is below 75. Why would you intentionally drop temperature that low?

 

[web2323]

Not good code. If the heater ever turns off due too hitting 81, it will not turn back on until the tank is below 75. Why would you intentionally drop temperature that low?

Good point. How would you code it to come back on? Add "On" at the end?

 

[schuby]

I use my Apex to turn off my heater outlets off when the water temp is a degree or two above the heater's own setting. I let the heater turn itself on and off. Apex prevents my tank from overheating if a heater fails to turn off by itself.

For example, heater #1 keeps temp around 76. Apex turns that outlet off when temp gets above 77 (usually in summer when house temp is higher). Heater #2 keeps temp around 74 (backup if #1 fails). Apex turn that outlet off when temp gets above 76.8 (slightly lower then #1, and usually in summer).

Basically, the heater outlets stay on all winter and off all summer. It may fluctuate a few days in Spring and a few days in Fall, but the outlets are not switching on and off all day long.

My tank runs around 76 in winter and 80-81 in summer. I have to use a chiller so I want the four degrees of difference: I don't want heater and chiller on at the same time.

 

[TheHarold]

Good point. How would you code it to come back on? Add "On" at the end?

Based on his Inkbird temperature controller being set to 78, and assuming the Inkbird and the probes are reading the same (you can adjust the reading), for my personal tank I would do the following:

• Fallback off
• Set on
• If temp > 80.5 then off
• If temp < 50 then off
• Defer 10 then on

What this would translate to is:

• If the power bar is disconnected from apex brain, turn off.
• The outlet should be normally ON
• Turn off when above 80.5 degrees
• Turn off if below 50 degrees (The apex temp probe reads ~20 degrees if disconnected or damaged)
• Wait 10 minutes before coming back on (to prevent rapid cycling if temperature is flickering between 80.4 and 80.5 degrees).

 

[web2323]

Based on his Inkbird temperature controller being set to 78, and assuming the Inkbird and the probes are reading the same (you can adjust the reading), for my personal tank I would do the following:

• Fallback off
• Set on
• If temp > 80.5 then off
• If temp < 50 then off
• Defer 10 then on

What this would translate to is:

• If the power bar is disconnected from apex brain, turn off.
• The outlet should be normally ON
• Turn off when above 80.5 degrees
• Turn off if below 50 degrees (The apex temp probe reads ~20 degrees if disconnected or damaged)
• Wait 10 minutes before coming back on (to prevent rapid cycling if temperature is flickering between 80.4 and 80.5 degrees).

Thanks. That makes sense. I think

I am struggling a little bit with the whole FALLBACK command. If I am out of town, and my brains fail or there is some sort of other issue, wouldn't I want FALLBACK ON and then let the heaters controller take over. The heater won't turn on even if the outlet on the energy bar is on since it would be ultimately be controlled by the controller? Or am I wrong?

 

[schuby]

I believe that FALLBACK is the state when the power strip is first powered on (say after a power outage), before Apex controller has any logical effect. The SET ON right afterwards tells Apex to turn the outlet on, by default, after it boots. All the commands are evaluated top to bottom, every second or so. After each evaluation, the final state, on or off, decides if the outlet is on or off.

I prefer "Fallback off" for my heater outlets, too. Apex controllers can fail, too. (Hopefully, almost never!) With heater being off, tank will cool slowly. With heater stuck on (Muphy's Law), tank will heat very fast. Longer duration for temp change gives me more time to address and prevent a catastrophe.

 

[mike550]

I’m a newbie here and this conversation is really helpful and interesting. I’m thinking of using a two heater system — neither of which is powerful enough to overheat the tank by itself. What are your thoughts on the following.

One heater is plugged directly into the EB832 and set to be on unless temp > 82

Second heater plugged into InkBird then EB832. InkBird is set for 79+/-1. EB832 set to the same on unless temp >82

I’d also throw in the if temp<50 then off — thanks @TheHarold

Thanks in advance

 

[sslater0679]

Here is a good explanation from RussM over on the Neptune forums. This is how I have my heaters programmed. Also here is the link to the whole conversation. There is also conversation about letting the apex control the temp and not the Hester controller.

https://forum.neptunesystems.com/showthread.php?21344-Best-Practices-for-heater-controllers


“Programming is evaluated in the order of the statements, from top to bottom. The last TRUE statement determines the state of the output. Let's look at the pertinent part of the program I posted earlier:

If Temp > 78.3 Then OFF
If Temp < 77.9 Then ON
If DoW S-T-T-S Then OFF
If Temp < 77.6 Then ON

The two If Temp lines control the heater based on temp.... The outlet will turn ON as soon as the temperature drops below 77.9. It will then stay ON until the temp hits 78.3, and then will turn OFF. It will then stay OFF until the temp goes below 77.9 again, then will turn ON, stay on until the temp once again exceeds 78.3, so on and so forth.

BUT *IF* the If DoW line is TRUE, (because it is Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, or Saturday), then this will override the previous If Temp statements and keep the outlet off.

However, if the temperature goes below 77.6, the heater will get turned on, regardless of what day of week it is... it is at the end of the program, so if TRUE, will take precedence over the If DoW line.

My other heater is, of course, programmed exactly the same except for the If DoW, which is If DoW -M-W-F- Then OFF

Defer and Min Time are unique in that they are the only commands that effect the entire outcome. "If DoW" is evaluated like any normal statement.“