Copepods question

[Jason mack]

hello R2R
I have a question regarding copepods , I have a spotted mandarin (lsd pitvis) .. I was told too feed him copepods .. and that they would also be good for my tank ..so I feed copepods roughly every other day to my tank .. I put them in 30 mins after lights out.. have been doing this for the last three months or so .. is it possible too over feed your tank with them .. ?? My mandarin also eats frozen mysis shrimp too when he can see them .. I've had problems the last 2 months or so with elevated nitrate levels .. mine alwYs seem too hang around the 20 ppm regardless of 20 % water changes every week .. could the water from the copepods be causing this ? Frozen food I always wash with tap water .. but the copepods are too small too empty in a net too wash .. for the rest all my parameters are good and my tank is doing well .!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

hello R2R
I have a question regarding copepods , I have a spotted mandarin (lsd pitvis) .. I was told too feed him copepods .. and that they would also be good for my tank ..so I feed copepods roughly every other day to my tank .. I put them in 30 mins after lights out.. have been doing this for the last three months or so .. is it possible too over feed your tank with them .. ?? My mandarin also eats frozen mysis shrimp too when he can see them .. I've had problems the last 2 months or so with elevated nitrate levels .. mine alwYs seem too hang around the 20 ppm regardless of 20 % water changes every week .. could the water from the copepods be causing this ? Frozen food I always wash with tap water .. but the copepods are too small too empty in a net too wash .. for the rest all my parameters are good and my tank is doing well .!

I replenish cope pods only every few months. Amphipods and isopods breed much easier in the tank and are also snacks too.
I would doubt the water is effecting anything.
I feed pretty heavy and never rinse. that said I do have a dsb an fuge and my tank is 2 years old with much older rock and lots of it.

how old is your tank?
scrubber or fuge or whats you nutrient mitigation/export method?

 

[Jason mack]

Hey salty thanks for answering ....Nutrient mitigation /export method ???
I have no sump or fuge .. I have in tank bio filter with sponges .. and a tunze protein skimmer .. I feed twice daily one day flakes or pellets and every other day frozen mysis shrimps plus the copepods as well .. could I be over feeding

 

[Gustavo Martinez]

I'd stick with pods...

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Hey salty thanks for answering ....Nutrient mitigation /export method ???
I have no sump or fuge .. I have in tank bio filter with sponges .. and a tunze protein skimmer .. I feed twice daily one day flakes or pellets and every other day frozen mysis shrimps

lol. TOOOO much cofe here.
refugium, carbon dosing, bio pellets.
Bio pellets and carbon dosing increase the bio filter to reduce nutrints with bacteria and send funk to the skimmer.
. A refugium uses plants to reduce excess nutrients, as does an algae scrubber. So higher nutrients may be from a new or poorly performing bio filter(ie rock and sand), what Bio filter are you referring to with sponges?
if your in an aio the back can become a nutrient mess.

And I belive you are saying a Psychedelic Dragonette or spotted yes? they transition to frozen pretty well. pods are just good food and not quite as critical IMO as to a green or red mandarin. But it depends on the fish too.
My spotted was a pig and ate everything. (caught in the overflow).

 

[twilliard]

20% change is not significant enough to lower No3 by any large amount.
Also remember pods shed

 

[Jason mack]

Well I will be switching over too a 90g with sump soon so things will improve .. my tank is doing good at the mo it's a 25g Juwel rekkord.. I have no algae or cyno .. the tank is 1 year old ..
On the right just out of shot is my filter it has the blue green bio sponges in it .. the skimmer is next too that

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Well I will be switching over too a 90g with sump soon so things will improve .. my tank is doing good at the mo it's a 25g Juwel rekkord.. I have no algae or cyno .. the tank is 1 year old ..

yea...so I wouldn't worry about those silly numbers then.

 

[Jason mack]

But I do .. can't help it

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

But I do .. can't help it

lol, the old folks say look at the health of the corals.

oh, and those are xenia in the lower right? you numbers are too low for it. thats what the xenia says.

 

[Jason mack]

Can you elaborate on that a bit more for me please

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Can you elaborate on that a bit more for me please

the xenia?
In higher No and PO the get long and thick. FAT.
In lower nutrints they shrink up. yes higher flow will keep them small too, but, yours seem to be in a mid flow spot.
Ive been slowly upping and lowing nutrients all year. And the same "size" colony will literally shrink with lower numbers.(zoas will also get skinny, but xena typically, ime, first).

so...with everything in the tank looking so happy, and the xenia small, Id say that tank is pretty darned spot on for nutrints.

and next time you see a tank with a billion FAT xenia, you know what the numbers are. and flow.

 

[Jason mack]

WoW !!!thanks .. its good too know Im doing something right .. I feel lost in this hobby sometimes

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

WoW !!!thanks .. its good too know Im doing something right .. I feel lost in this hobby sometimes

Yea, Im totally confused most days really.


Its a funny balance you hit in that tank. as folks chase the numbers, the animals are clearly taking what they need, despite what we think the numbers augh to be. the recommendations ARE after all, recommendations, and even Ranndy will tell you that.

 

[laga77]

hello R2R
I have a question regarding copepods , I have a spotted mandarin (lsd pitvis) .. I was told too feed him copepods .. and that they would also be good for my tank ..so I feed copepods roughly every other day !

What kind of pods and where do you get them. Also, the best supplemental food, besides pods, for Dragonets would be live Blackworms or White worms along with live BBS. I have 4 pairs of Dragonets in my tanks.

 

[SantaMonica]

You will start getting nuisance algae on your rocks in about 6 months as the rocks fill with phosphate. You have no export really.

 

[Jason mack]

You will start getting nuisance algae on your rocks in about 6 months as the rocks fill with phosphate. You have no export really.

Thanks for replying SantaMonica, can you explain that in laymans terms for me please.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

You will start getting nuisance algae on your rocks in about 6 months as the rocks fill with phosphate. You have no export really.

unless he has a good bacterial population to consume it. OR other organisms that consume it, like corals.

No stays suspended in the wc sand dust detritus etc, Po binds to rock and sand.

So no reason to export IF its all being consumed.

 

[SantaMonica]

Consuming does not equal export. If not exported, it will build up, unless the buildup is the mass of the animals which is nice. But soaking/binding to the rocks is not desired, and is temporary at best, usually 18 months from what I see starting with new NSW rocks.

Nutrient Export

What do all algae (and cyano too) need to survive? Nutrients. What are nutrients? Ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate and urea are the major ones. Which ones cause most of the algae in your tank? These same ones. Why can't you just remove these nutrients and eliminate all the algae in your tank? Because these nutrients are the result of the animals you keep.

So how do your animals "make" these nutrients? Well a large part the nutrients comes from pee (urea). Pee is very high in urea and ammonia, and these are a favorite food of algae and some bacteria. This is why your glass will always need cleaning; because the pee hits the glass before anything else, and algae on the glass consume the ammonia and urea immediately (using photosynthesis) and grow more. In the ocean and lakes, phytoplankton consume the ammonia and urea in open water, and seaweed consume it in shallow areas, but in a tank you don't have enough space or water volume for this, and, your other filters or animals often remove or kill the phytoplankton or seaweed anyway. So, the nutrients stay in your tank.

Then, the ammonia/ammonium hits your rocks, and the periphyton on the rocks consumes more ammonia and urea. Periphyton is both algae and animals, and is the reason your rocks change color after a few weeks from when they were new. Then the ammonia goes inside the rock, or hits your sand, and bacteria there convert it into nitrite and nitrate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.

Also let's not forget phosphate, which comes from solid organic food particles. When these particles are eaten by microbes and clean up crews, the organic phosphorus in them is converted into phosphate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.

So whenever you have algae or cyano "problems", you simply have not exported enough nutrients out of your tank compared to how much you have been feeding (note: live rock can absorb phosphate for up to a year, making it seem like there was never a problem. Then after a year, there is a problem).

So just increase your nutrient exports. You could also reduce feeding, and this has the same effect, but it's certainly not fun when you want to feed your animals

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Consuming does not equal export.

yes it does. kinda, chato grows, gets thrown away. coral grows, we just keep them. the nutrints are being used.
Nutrient export is actually "excess nutrient export". No need IMO to export what you need or are are using.

so if your No and Po are in range, there is no need to export. if the numbers are going up, yes you need to get the excess out. because THEN yes, it does build up.

I pulled bound Po off sand and rock (tested) with high light, with a refugium and corals. the dang hob leaked, i took it off line but the Po was good. never went back up so my tank has been skimmerless fuge less most of the year. In fact I have to feed heavier as the nutrients will actually drop too low. because ALL the organisms in the tank are consuming the nutrints.