Coral captive deformation possibly caused by LEDs?

[thamnasteroid]

I saw thread on the SPS forum the other day noticing that the axial corallite of Acros tend to "wrinkle up" when grown under LEDs. I was reminded of when Chris Meckley from ACI Aquaculture said that "LEDs are the going to be the death of corals." I've been talking about corals deforming in captivity for a bit now, trying to think of why it happens and what factors could influence it. This got me thinking, could LEDs be the cause of coral deformation in captivity?

Why would LEDs specifically cause coral captive deformation? The only way this would happen is that there must be something in the spectrum of LED fixtures. Could a lack of infrared lighting be the reason, or is it possibly because most LED systems are too "blue?" If it were because of LEDs, those are the only reasons I can think of.

To those still using non-LED lighting systems (halide, T5, etc), please post your corals grown under them. I want to see what your corals look like and whether they are as deformed or not.

 

[Eric R.]

What do you make of the fact that in the thread you are talking about, as well as another thread from several years ago, there were examples of growth deformities from users with T5 and MH lighting, as well as in wild corals?

See quoted posts from these threads below.

I think this subject/thread needs a bump,

I think flow is not a factor in this whatsoever, however, contrary to my previous "statement/hypothesis" I also dont believe LEDs are the cause anymore either.

Been reading more into this subject more and the same GAs (growth anomalies) are being observed on corals in the wild,

This study I found particularly interesting, seems that some species of acropora, linear growth is not affected where as other species are stunted. However did mention these growth anomalies possibly affecting nutritional, reproductive and immunological health of the colonies

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmars.2016.00151/full
Unfortunately from my reading of this and other studies, the cause is still relatively unknown, but because of a observed increased upregulation of prophenoloxidase of affected colonies it is suspected to be an immunological response to an unknown environmental irritant.
Other possible theories I have read into is the possibility of being caused by a pathogen or even a parasite thats lifecycle includes hosting in corallivorous fishes!

Question is ? would they be able to observe these GA in coral fossils? how long has this been going on with corals on wild reefs around the world ?

I recommend reading the study I linked, incredibly interesting stuff!

Anyone have any thoughts ? theories? crackpot ideas?

Amazing find!

I posted on there too. Well, I have read numerous MH users experiencing this, and at the end of that thread conclusion was that this is also found in the wild. Additionally they stated they don’t believe it’s linked to LEDs. Mind that I use t5 bulbs in addition to LEDs.

it’s a coincidence since most tanks are now LED lit, so of course most people who will have it will be using LEDs.

Happened to me and @Troylee under halides.

 

[vitaliyphoto]

I saw thread on the SPS forum the other day noticing that the axial corallite of Acros tend to "wrinkle up" when grown under LEDs. I was reminded of when Chris Meckley from ACI Aquaculture said that "LEDs are the going to be the death of corals." I've been talking about corals deforming in captivity for a bit now, trying to think of why it happens and what factors could influence it. This got me thinking, could LEDs be the cause of coral deformation in captivity?

Why would LEDs specifically cause coral captive deformation? The only way this would happen is that there must be something in the spectrum of LED fixtures. Could a lack of infrared lighting be the reason, or is it possibly because most LED systems are too "blue?" If it were because of LEDs, those are the only reasons I can think of.

To those still using non-LED lighting systems (halide, T5, etc), please post your corals grown under them. I want to see what your corals look like and whether they are as deformed or not.

You are experiencing a well documented phenomenon called tulip-polyp syndrome/ hyperplasia syndrome in acropora. It is most likely caused by microscopic pathogenic organism that thrives in certain environments that stress out corals. This can be light induced as you are noticing, but the chain of events is as follows:

1. Infection by introduction (or even presence of pathogen in small quantities in EVERY SYSTEM)
2. Coral’s immune system compromised due to stress from any of the following: lighting, water chemistry, infection with other pests (AEFW, Red Bugs, etc), of note previously caused by issues with salinity and alkalinity.
3. Full infection and tissue deformities (like wrinkled foil or pimples etc) as well as some polyps looking like tulip flower- extended but in a shape of closed up tulip.

This can last for months or years as in my system. There have been reports of issue resolving spontaneously when stressor is corrected, and other reports of frags moved to a different system experiencing full recovery.

So no, nothing wrong with LED lighting, but if you already have the issue high par MAY be preventing recovery as you may know high lighting causes oxidative stress.

 

[thamnasteroid]

What do you make of the fact that in the thread you are talking about, as well as another thread from several years ago, there were examples of growth deformities from users with T5 and MH lighting, as well as in wild corals?

See quoted posts from these threads below.

I did not see the post about it happening under halides.
For the wild growth anomalies, though, those are more of centralized infections/tumors, not affecting the full corallum. From what I have seen, corals kept for a long time in captivity tend to lose corallite definition and become fleshier. In Acros specifically, table branchlet density is greater. This does not seem to be any sort of parasite infection, as this happens to most, if not all corals.
I'm not talking about tulip-polyp syndrome. This is the thread I was referring to, not the threads you linked.

You are experiencing a well documented phenomenon called tulip-polyp syndrome/ hyperplasia syndrome in acropora. It is most likely caused by microscopic pathogenic organism that thrives in certain environments that stress out corals. This can be light induced as you are noticing, but the chain of events is as follows:

1. Infection by introduction (or even presence of pathogen in small quantities in EVERY SYSTEM)
2. Coral’s immune system compromised due to stress from any of the following: lighting, water chemistry, infection with other pests (AEFW, Red Bugs, etc), of note previously caused by issues with salinity and alkalinity.
3. Full infection and tissue deformities (like wrinkled foil or pimples etc) as well as some polyps looking like tulip flower- extended but in a shape of closed up tulip.

This can last for months or years as in my system. There have been reports of issue resolving spontaneously when stressor is corrected, and other reports of frags moved to a different system experiencing full recovery.

So no, nothing wrong with LED lighting, but if you already have the issue high par MAY be preventing recovery as you may know high lighting causes oxidative stress.

I'm not talking about tulip-polyp syndrome.

 

[Eric R.]

This is the thread I was referring to, not the threads you linked.

Actually, the first post I quoted from C. Eymann was from this thread. Post #142.

 

[Spare time]

There's no reason to suspect LED's as causing any problem.