Corals are shrinking/dying and Dinoflagellates

[Knox614]

Hey all, I'm new at this hobby and have recently started up this new tank that's 4 months old with LPS and SPS. They were doing great for a while and so far the Zoas are thriving. I only have 3 fishes 3 shrimps, 5 red skarlet hermit crabs, 2 nassarius snails, and 7 blue leg crabs at the moment.

Until recently my corals have been shrinking/dying and I think its a Dinoflagellates problem. They're all over the floor and on the rocks and I can't get rid of them. I've done water changes sucking off the sands, and scrapped them off. Just last night I turn off my protein skimmer, and fed them heavily of mysis shrimp and reef roids to get my phosphate and nitrate up. I then lower the lights to below 50%. Is the tank just going through the ugly phase? I'm thinking about doing a 5 day blackout.

Parameter
Alkalinity: 11
Phosphate: 0
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 0
PH: 8.2
Salinity: 1.025
Magnesium: 1400
Calcium: 410

 

[Knox614]

Bump

 

[slingfox]

Common suggestions jn this situation are get nutrients up, run UV sterilizer 24/7 (preferably pulling and feeding back into display tank), dose beneficial bacteria (competes against the dinos), add copepods (eats the dinos), and dose silicate if you are battling dinos on the sand. You may also want to get a cheap microscope to properly ID the dinos. Of these suggestions it seems like UV is the most cited step which turned the tide (ie, doing the others may not be enough or will take a whole lot longer without UV).

Since you don't have much livestock. You may want to dose phosphate and nitrate instead of trying to get them up by over feeding.

 

[Knox614]

Common suggestions jn this situation are get nutrients up, run UV sterilizer 24/7 (preferably pulling and feeding back into display tank), dose beneficial bacteria (competes against the dinos), add copepods (eats the dinos), and dose silicate if you are battling dinos on the sand. You may also want to get a cheap microscope to properly ID the dinos.

Any suggestion on UV, beneficial bacteria, microscope, and copepods?

 

[Pillahump]

My cousin was dealing with the same issue with dinos killing/effecting his corals and got the "green killing machine" UV sterilizer and his tank looks better than it ever has! High recommend you grab one =)

 

[Knox614]

My cousin was dealing with the same issue with dinos killing/effecting his corals and got the "green killing machine" UV sterilizer and his tank looks better than it ever has! High recommend you grab one =)

What kind of sterilizer is it? I have a 60 gal

 

[slingfox]

Any suggestion on UV, beneficial bacteria, microscope, and copepods?

Get the biggest UV that you can fit and afford. The Pentair and Aqua UV are the most commonly cited. I used the. A Vecton since I needed something that fit inside my crowded sump area.

Beneficial bacteria you can use Dr. Tim's Waste Away which apparently has the larger mouth bacteria which are more likely to eat the dinos. I am dealing with a dino outbreak right now and dosing Waste Away and MicroBacter7 on alternating days. There is a Reefbums video on YouTube that has a long discussion in fighting dinos.

For copepods there are several great small scale vendors on Reef2Reef: Dinkins, Reef by Steele, and a new sponsor out of Utah. You get much better bang for your buck from these vendors than AlgaeBarn.

 

[Miami Reef]

Raise phosphates to 0.10ppm and nitrates (2-10ppm).

If you can, dose sodium silicate to allow diatoms to outcompete the dinos.

You should see a nice turnaround in a couple of weeks after making those changes. Your corals will look much better, too.

What test kits are you using?

UV will not work for all dinos. I wouldn’t invest in one personally, at least until you can borrow a microscope.

 

[Pillahump]

What kind of sterilizer is it? I have a 60 gal

it's called "Green Killing Machine" and it's a UV sterilizer. You can get it on Amazon just be sure to find the appropriate sized one for your tank

 

[slingfox]

What kind of sterilizer is it? I have a 60 gal

For a 60 gallon you should look up the Vecton UV on American Aquatics. Reasonably priced relatively speaking (we are in an expensive going), easy to install, compact, and most sexy looking of all the UV units on the market. Get the 25 watt model. You can try battling dinos without a UV but it is one of the most cited solutions and can be useful even after the dino outbreak is over.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

You're starving your corals and the non existent nutrients have caused dinos. It's really hard to see the extent of the algae in the blue saturated pics; can you post some under white lights? You *might* not need to do anything but raise nutrients and manually remove the dinos... This is a 4 month old tank and these dinos might be a part of the uglies...

 

[Knox614]

Raise phosphates to 0.10ppm and nitrates (2-10ppm).

If you can, dose sodium silicate to allow diatoms to outcompete the dinos.

You should see a nice turnaround in a couple of weeks after making those changes. Your corals will look much better, too.

What test kits are you using?

UV will not work for all dinos. I wouldn’t invest in one personally, at least until you can borrow a microscope.

Salifert test kits.
I think I'll get a UV regardless because eventually I'll be getting a 150 gal later on

 

[Knox614]

For a 60 gallon you should look up the Vecton UV on American Aquatics. Reasonably priced relatively speaking (we are in an expensive going), easy to install, compact, and most sexy looking of all the UV units on the market. Get the 25 watt model. You can try battling dinos without a UV but it is one of the most cited solutions and can be useful even after the dino outbreak is over.

Thanks, do they sell those in the LFS? I might get something bigger because I'll be getting a 150 gal later down the line. In California btw.

 

[Knox614]

You're starving your corals and the non existent nutrients have caused dinos. It's really hard to see the extent of the algae in the blue saturated pics; can you post some under white lights? You *might* not need to do anything but raise nutrients and manually remove the dinos... This is a 4 month old tank and these dinos might be a part of the uglies...

That's what I'm thinking initially, it might just be an ugly phase. I'll take a better picture once I get home

 

[slingfox]

To clean off the dinos on your rock pick up a Rubbermaid Reveal Cordless Battery Power Scrubber. I also use my Marineland Magnum Polishing Filter to blow off the rocks (just move it around by hand). I am dealing with dinos right now and have had to clean off the rock every day while dosing bacteria and running UV. Today my wife looked at the tank and noted that it is looking better. My rollermat has also started to go less crazy. During the first week I was running through as massive amount of fleece due to the large amounts of biomass being pulled out. If you have filter socks be sure to clean those out every day until you get the dinos under control.

To save on rollermat fleece I have been running the Marineland Polisher inside the display tank for an hour after major rocks scrubbings.

For dinos on the sand you can siphon that layer out periodically.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

That's what I'm thinking initially, it might just be an ugly phase. I'll take a better picture once I get home

I had dinos in a new nano tank and didn't do anything but feed more (to raise nutrients) and siphon the crud out of the tank every day or 2. Went away on its own. Admittedly, some types of dinos are more difficult to eliminate but in a new tank it's likely that your tank just doesn't have anything to outcompete them right now. This is why adding silicates to encourage diatoms is a good option as well.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

To clean off the dinos on your rock pick up a Rubbermaid Reveal Cordless Battery Power Scrubber. I also use my Marineland Magnum Polishing Filter to blow off the rocks (just move it around by hand). I am dealing with dinos right now and have had to clean off the rock every day while dosing bacteria and running UV. Today my wife looked at the tank and noted that it is looking better. My rollermat has also started to go less crazy. During the first week I was running through as massive amount of fleece due to the large amounts of biomass being pulled out. If you have filter socks be sure to clean those out every day until you get the dinos under control.

To save on rollermat fleece I have been running the Marineland Polisher inside the display tank for an hour after major rocks scrubbings.

Curious, how old is your tank?

 

[Miami Reef]

Salifert test kits.
I think I'll get a UV regardless because eventually I'll be getting a 150 gal later on

Salifert for nitrate is excellent. For phosphate, it gets two thumbs down. Make sure you are at least 0.10ppm with that kit. Higher is better than lower for beating dinos.

UV is not needed for most aquariums. I wouldn’t invest in one. You can beat dinos without it. It might help you beat ostreopsis dinos faster, but you don’t even know if you have that type.

 

[slingfox]

Thanks, do they sell those in the LFS? I might get something bigger because I'll be getting a 150 gal later down the line. In California btw.

I never checked any of my LFS for UV. Unfortunately for LFS, the price of aquarium equipment is typically cheaper online. Some vendors don't charge/have sales tax included in their pricing and have free shipping. Halloween and Black Friday sales coming up soon too.

 

[slingfox]

Curious, how old is your tank?

My tank is in month 3 and am in ugly phase right now. Unfortunately I have had to do a lot of research on how to battle dinos! My biggest mistake was likely leaving phosphate and nitrate at zero for the last 1.5 month. I decided to not add more livestock (two of my early fish jumped out) / over feed tank since the custom lid I order had to be adjusted which delayed things by 1.5 months. Now that I am dosing nitrates, bacteria, manually removing dinos, and running UV things are getting better but I likely have a long way to go. My custom lid also came in yesterday so I can start adding fish again.