Corals are shrinking/dying and Dinoflagellates

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

My tank is in month 3 and am in ugly phase right now. Unfortunately I have had to do a lot of research on how to battle dinos! My biggest mistake was likely leaving phosphate and nitrate at zero for the last 1.5 month. I decided to not add more livestock (two of my early dish jumped out) since the custom lid I order had to be adjusted which delayed things by 1.5 months.

I wonder if you can also get by with less intervention... Sometimes less is more, and trying to avoid the natural algae progression might leave you more susceptible to outbreaks in the future.

 

[Knox614]

You're starving your corals and the non existent nutrients have caused dinos. It's really hard to see the extent of the algae in the blue saturated pics; can you post some under white lights? You *might* not need to do anything but raise nutrients and manually remove the dinos... This is a 4 month old tank and these dinos might be a part of the uglies...

 

[Knox614]

Salifert for nitrate is excellent. For phosphate, it gets two thumbs down. Make sure you are at least 0.10ppm with that kit. Higher is better than lower for beating dinos.

UV is not needed for most aquariums. I wouldn’t invest in one. You can beat dinos without it. It might help you beat ostreopsis dinos faster, but you don’t even know if you have that type.

Any recommendations for test kit? I wanted to get Hanna, but they're expensive. I'm currently trying to win a bid war on Ebay for one.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Yep, that's nasty, lol. Looks exactly like the stuff I had and I didn't do anything but manually remove and increase feeding. If this was my tank, I'd try to scrape as much as possible off the glass and blow off the rocks, and then do a water change to siphon out all the loose algae. You could also use a net to capture it but it looks like you have a lot of rock to work around and that may not be too efficient. I hope this resolves quickly for you.

 

[Knox614]

Yep, that's nasty, lol. Looks exactly like the stuff I had and I didn't do anything but manually remove and increase feeding. If this was my tank, I'd try to scrape as much as possible off the glass and blow off the rocks, and then do a water change to siphon out all the loose algae. You could also use a net to capture it but it looks like you have a lot of rock to work around and that may not be too efficient. I hope this resolves quickly for you.

Do you remove the rocks and scrap it? Or did you do it while it's in the water?

 

[Knox614]

To clean off the dinos on your rock pick up a Rubbermaid Reveal Cordless Battery Power Scrubber. I also use my Marineland Magnum Polishing Filter to blow off the rocks (just move it around by hand). I am dealing with dinos right now and have had to clean off the rock every day while dosing bacteria and running UV. Today my wife looked at the tank and noted that it is looking better. My rollermat has also started to go less crazy. During the first week I was running through as massive amount of fleece due to the large amounts of biomass being pulled out. If you have filter socks be sure to clean those out every day until you get the dinos under control.

To save on rollermat fleece I have been running the Marineland Polisher inside the display tank for an hour after major rocks scrubbings.

For dinos on the sand you can siphon that layer out periodically.

Looks like I'll be doing some extensive shopping spree, but its worth it.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Do you remove the rocks and scrap it? Or did you do it while it's in the water?

Luckily, mine was in a bare bottom nano tank and I caught it early. I just blew it off the rocks and scraped the glass, and then used a turkey baster to suck out the loose algae.

If you can tolerate how it looks for a few weeks, between removing as much as you can (scraping and siphoning daily) and raising nutrients (and optionally, adding silicates), I think you can beat this pretty easily.

For removal, if you don't want to do actual water changes, you can siphon the algae out and into a filter sock in the sump, or siphon into a bucket, let the crud settle to the bottom, and add the water back.

 

[slingfox]

I wonder if you can also get by with less intervention... Sometimes less is more, and trying to avoid the natural algae progression might leave you more susceptible to outbreaks in the future.

I just tried letting the tank do it's own thing for the last two months (including letting nitrate and phosphate run at zero). After a while the algae + dinos overran everything including growing over the small number of coral frags as test subjects I got from local reeders trimming their tanks. Literally every millimeter of my rocks, sand, and frag rack were covered by GHA, ulva, and/or dinos. In some areas the algae was as 1-2 inches high. 3+ inch strings of dinos all over sand and rocks too. I was running through 5-6 ft of Reefmat a day even though I had only 2 small fish (was previously 25-35 inches). I went on a trip and realized when I got back that I forgot to turn the knob on the manifold to my UV so it as not working for several weeks. The tank was an eye sore so I decided to start proactively doing things in hope situation would improves. To get rid of the mass of algae on rocks I removed all my rock work and soaked in hydrogen peroxide for half an hour. That freed up real estate for the dinos so the war on dinos started.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I just tried letting the tank do it's own thing for the last two months (including letting nitrate and phosphate run at zero). After a while the algae + dinos overran everything including growing over the small number of coral frags as test subjects I got from local reeders trimming their tanks. Literally every millimeter of my rocks, sand, and frag rack were covered by GHA, ulva, and/or dinos. In some areas the algae was as 1-2 inches high. 3+ inch strings of dinos all over sand and rocks too. I was running through 5-6 ft of Reefmat a day even though I had only 2 small fish (was previously 25-35 inches). I went on a trip and realized when I got back that I forgot to turn the knob on the manifold to my UV so it as not working for several weeks. The tank was an eye sore so I decided to start proactively doing things in hope situation would improves. To get rid of the mass of algae on rocks I removed all my rock work and soaked in hydrogen peroxide for half an hour. That freed up real estate for the dinos so the war on dinos started.

Ok. You're on a different journey than the OP, lol.

 

[slingfox]

Ok. You're on a different journey than the OP, lol.

Yes, the h2o2 dip was great in cleaning the rocks but I didn't realize my UV had been for off until 4 days after the rocks were cleared with algae. Dinos which had been negligible / almost non-existent went crazy. I would scrub the rocks every night and come back to a fresh layer of dinos all over the rocks the next afternoon. This is still happening but the regrowth is each of the last 3 days is diminishing and dino layer on the sandbed has gone from complete toxic dump to somewhat less toxic dump. I assume this will take a while to clear up!

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Yes, the h2o2 dip was great in cleaning the rocks but I didn't my UV had been for a few off until 4 days after the rocks were cleared with algae. Dinos which had been negligee went crazy. I would scrub the rocks every night and come back to a fresh layer of dinos all over the rocks the next afternoon. This is still happening but the regrowth is each of the last 3 days is diminishing and dino layer on the sandbed has gone from complete toxic dump to somewhat less toxic dump. I assume this will take a while to clear up!

Yes, that was my experience as well, albeit on a lesser scale. Slow reduction in regrowth and then it went away. Good luck

 

[Knox614]

Update

So I went to my LFS and told my situation of my tank. He told me they were most likely Diatoms, not Dinos. So he gave me some Trochus Snails. The next day, the snails were eating off the rocks and walls. The corals seems a little more lively than before, but still small in comparison.

 

[Miami Reef]

Update

So I went to my LFS and told my situation of my tank. He told me they were most likely Diatoms, not Dinos. So he gave me some Trochus Snails. The next day, the snails were eating off the rocks and walls. The corals seems a little more lively than before, but still small in comparison.

I don’t think those are diatoms based on the pictures. Can you find a school or someone with a microscope? It wouldn’t hurt to check.

 

[Knox614]

I don’t think those are diatoms based on the pictures. Can you find a school or someone with a microscope? It wouldn’t hurt to check.

Not at the moment, no. It's Sunday and schools are closed. I don't know anyone with a microscope.

 

[Miami Reef]

Not at the moment, no. It's Sunday and schools are closed. I don't know anyone with a microscope.

OK if the time ever comes where you’d want to diagnose the algae, you can always snail mail me a sample of it. I can microscope it for you.

Nevertheless, keep your nutrients detectable and slightly elevated for your corals, and to increase competition in case the algae is dinos.

Good luck.

 

[Knox614]

OK if the time ever comes where you’d want to diagnose the algae, you can always snail mail me a sample of it. I can microscope it for you.

Nevertheless, keep your nutrients detectable and slightly elevated for your corals, and to increase competition in case the algae is dinos.

Good luck.

Thanks for your help, honestly. You've all done me a huge service.

 

[slingfox]

Update

So I went to my LFS and told my situation of my tank. He told me they were most likely Diatoms, not Dinos. So he gave me some Trochus Snails. The next day, the snails were eating off the rocks and walls. The corals seems a little more lively than before, but still small in comparison.

When I had diatoms they would blow off the rocks like dust and did not form the long stringy tentacles with an air bubble at the end. Best way to confirm is with a microscope as others have said. Diatoms and dinos look very different under magnification.

 

[Mikeltee]

The first step is acquiring a microscope. There are new strains out that can't be beat. I struggled for 2 years. Luckily, I sprang a leak and my rock just finished a week in bleach and 2 days in 1:1 vinegar. Still working on the leak. I had Collia. I highly suggest not chasing ULN and avoiding GFO at all costs.

Check out Macs reef on Facebook. They have a good writeup about beating dinos. You may get lucky and beat them. I'd say you got a 50/50 shot. Get an oversized UV and run a closed loop on the display with a very low flow rate. A 57 watt requires about 300gph. You are wasting your time if you run UV any different method than a closed loop on your display. Dosing silicates roughly 2ppm will help as well. Start culturing phyto and pods.

I'd just start over though and make sure that you never get low nutrients again! Like I said... you got a 50/50 shot. Good luck with your battle.

 

[MickeyCT]

I really suggest a microscope over UV. One for identifying dinos does not need to be expensive. The inexpensive ones on Amazon will usually be okay. I'd suggest the beginner microscopes from AmScope or Omano. Here's one example:

There are a number of threads on identifying types of dinos if you search. See this thread by taricha. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellate-identification-guide.671466/

Good luck!

 

[ScottB]

I really suggest a microscope over UV. One for identifying dinos does not need to be expensive. The inexpensive ones on Amazon will usually be okay. I'd suggest the beginner microscopes from AmScope or Omano. Here's one example:

There are a number of threads on identifying types of dinos if you search. See this thread by taricha. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellate-identification-guide.671466/

Good luck!

Yeah that is an essential thread. The video links amke it super easy to ID the dino type.

OP, if you are having trouble sleeping, this document might help.

A Dinoflagellate Treatment Guide

As the title suggests, this is intended as a short guide on what to do when you suspect dinoflagellates are trying to overtake your system. It is an attempt to boil down the protocols discussed across 11,000 posts in this "Are you Tired" thread...

www.reef2reef.com