Corals dying ICP test results

[Skynyrd Fish]

I actually had copper In My ro water. I don’t really know how except I feel something nuked my filters that were not that old. My copper got to .14 ppm on Hanna. I have brought it down to .03 on Hanna with cuprasorb and I put in some chemipure. I still don’t trust my ro unit as it’s 6 years old. I’ll be getting a new one at the brs black Friday sale. I am also running MP40 and mp60. Because of the possibility of the magnets leaching I’m going to keep the cuprasorb running for ever.

 

[Seabed]

Thank you everyone for your help.
So far I have bought new RO filters and DI resin to be installed this week. I am also going to perform an ICP test on some fresh salt water I have already got mixed just to find out if that was the tin/copper source so I’m not guessing in the future.

I am going to run some cuprisorb or metasorb in an attempt to remove the metals (I know neither product is advertised to remove tin but I don’t think there are any better options to try).

I have however found a potential culprit for the metal content in the ICP test. I have found some fine rust dust on the upper cabinet hinge above the sump, it’s not obvious but with a torch it can be seen and it comes off with your finger.

Do you think this could be the cause?

 

[Seabed]

I thought I would share I picture of a turbo snail /to show the infestation.

 

[dwest]

Thank you everyone for your help.
So far I have bought new RO filters and DI resin to be installed this week. I am also going to perform an ICP test on some fresh salt water I have already got mixed just to find out if that was the tin/copper source so I’m not guessing in the future.

I am going to run some cuprisorb or metasorb in an attempt to remove the metals (I know neither product is advertised to remove tin but I don’t think there are any better options to try).

I have however found a potential culprit for the metal content in the ICP test. I have found some fine rust dust on the upper cabinet hinge above the sump, it’s not obvious but with a torch it can be seen and it comes off with your finger.

Do you think this could be the cause?

I think it’s possble.

 

[dwest]

I thought I would share I picture of a turbo snail /to show the infestation.

I’m loaded with those as well. Hate ‘em! Nothing good, but don’t cause my corals major problems.

 

[Seabed]

I’m loaded with those as well. Hate ‘em! Nothing good, but don’t cause my corals major problems.

Mine are actually growing through my corals and growing on them

 

[Seabed]

So today I was busy changing my hinges on my cabinet as they were a little bit rusty. I had to remove the sump as the lower hinge was inaccessible. This meant removing all the equipment and in the process, I found a faulty heater. I’d checked it before and thought it was ok, I either missed it the first time around or it wasn’t noticeable and it has developed. On one side, there is a 13cm run of tiny little holes all in a perfect line and on the other side it has a large hole with rust showing on the inside. I think it’s safe to say I have found the culprit.
On another note, having changed my RO filters and DI resin, I now have zero TDS.
I also sent a sample of fresh salt water to triton (before I found the heater) so it will be interesting to see what the results are with my previous high TDS RO water.

 

[BeejReef]

Just did a deep dive on my system looking for iron, lithium, lead, etc. Like you, found rusty hinges. Hard to believe they'd have such an impact, but I do run a cooling fan in the stand, so maybe. I think the real offender was my fuge light.. a ufo style one. All the external screws and mounts had rusted significantly, as had the hanging cables. It runs a cooling fan, so I'm sure that rusty dust was getting dispersed. Thankfully, stainless steel wire and zip ties are cheap. They hold the light together and hang it for now.

 

[Seabed]

I’ve just had my ICP test returned for a batch of salt water that I was using prior to swapping out the RO filters.
the results seem to pose more questions than answers. All elements that were high in the tank ISP test are zero (Understandable if the faulty heater was the cause), but there are other high elements that didn’t show the tank, notably iron and manganese.
I’m more confused than ever.

 

[BeejReef]

I’ve just had my ICP test returned for a batch of salt water that I was using prior to swapping out the RO filters.
the results seem to pose more questions than answers. All elements that were high in the tank ISP test are zero (Understandable if the faulty heater was the cause), but there are other high elements that didn’t show the tank, notably iron and manganese.
I’m more confused than ever.

What brand of salt are you using. Your results are eerily similar to mine... granted, my test was done on tank water.

 

[Seabed]

What brand of salt are you using. Your results are eerily similar to mine... granted, my test was done on tank water.

I am using Tropic Marin Pro Reef.

I can’t understand though how the fresh saltwater has large amounts of iron and manganese present yet the tank water didn’t have any.

 

[BeejReef]

I am using Tropic Marin Pro Reef.

I can’t understand though how the fresh saltwater has large amounts of iron and manganese present yet the tank water didn’t have any.

hmmm.. IO here, so another dead end

It is hard to fathom since Tropic Marin is renowned for blending their salt mix so well. NOT throwing any shade at them.
Iron would be easier to understand... something rusting somewhere OR it's an extremely abundant element and you could understand contamination.

Iron is consumed by macroalgae (chaeto). It's one of the key needs for growth. People dose it. I'm not sure about manganese.
Is your saltwater mix pump submerged in the water? Is your water storage securely covered? You mentioned a faulty heater in your tank. Did you examine the heater in your mix barrel?

I feel for you. You're being very thorough and it's not leading to obvious answers.
I can't imagine iron is a game changer. Reefs grow on sunken ships. Conservationists sink old hulls to provide habitat for reefs.

 

[LadyTang2]

That said, copper and tin are among the most toxic elements that we encounter in reefs.

Search on tin. There is loads of discussion on toxicity and sources, which may include aquarium glass and pvc piping.

Might CPVC be a better options for people in the long run? I've read it is "more resistant and often used in industrial applications". I'v also read "CPVC is altered by a free radical chlorination reaction that effectively increases the chlorine content of the material. " and wonder if that could be a problem but I'm no chemist.

From everything I have read it seems like something I might try, anyone have input on CPVC?

 

[BayouReefer]

Your TDS of 11 is high we’re is your water coming from it is well water or city water?

 

[Seabed]

Your TDS of 11 is high we’re is your water coming from it is well water or city water?

My water is city water, the TDS going into the RO unit is 386 and it was coming out 11, I’ve since changed the RO pre filters and DI resin and am now getting 0. It was only 11 because the RO was overdue maintenance.

 

[Seabed]

hmmm.. IO here, so another dead end

It is hard to fathom since Tropic Marin is renowned for blending their salt mix so well. NOT throwing any shade at them.
Iron would be easier to understand... something rusting somewhere OR it's an extremely abundant element and you could understand contamination.

Iron is consumed by macroalgae (chaeto). It's one of the key needs for growth. People dose it. I'm not sure about manganese.
Is your saltwater mix pump submerged in the water? Is your water storage securely covered? You mentioned a faulty heater in your tank. Did you examine the heater in your mix barrel?

I feel for you. You're being very thorough and it's not leading to obvious answers.
I can't imagine iron is a game changer. Reefs grow on sunken ships. Conservationists sink old hulls to provide habitat for reefs.

My RO / salt water storage has a submerged pump and heater. The heater I’ve just inspected as it’s now in the aquarium replacing the damaged one. The circulation pump is a aqua medic wave maker, I’ve taken it apart and it looks ok.

 

[BeejReef]

One last thing occurred to me.. precipitant and sludge built up in your salt mix container from back when you were running 11TDS (or from salt mix). Presumably, your salt mix barrel is a smaller volume than your DT, so you would get higher concentrations testing specifically from that reservoir. When you do a water change, you are introducing some, but it's greatly diluted and is consumed by the organisms in your tank.

 

[2una]

I am using Tropic Marin Pro Reef.

I can’t understand though how the fresh saltwater has large amounts of iron and manganese present yet the tank water didn’t have any.

Both those 2 disappear out very fast is probably why.

My own thoughts would be now you have 0 tds water to work on get the tank tin level gone.
Copper to +/- 5 ug/l you'll find in the salt mix anyway.

For a compare for you here's another icp of tmpr salt i did a while ago (rodi test was clean 0 ug/l for all)
Is salt mix test not tank water.

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ATI Aquaristik - Lab

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Nitrate 5 ppm (used to be zero)
Phosphate 0.1 (used to be zero)

Those 2 could have been the issue too

 

[Seabed]

Both those 2 disappear out very fast is probably why.

My own thoughts would be now you have 0 tds water to work on get the tank tin level gone.
Copper to +/- 5 ug/l you'll find in the salt mix anyway.

For a compare for you here's another icp of tmpr salt i did a while ago (rodi test was clean 0 ug/l for all)
Is salt mix test not tank water.

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ATI Aquaristik - Lab

lab.atiaquaristik.com

Those 2 could have been the issue too

Agreed that the phos and nitrate could be a contributor. Interestingly, I don’t understand the reason for the increase, they both used to be zero and never fluctuated. My only explanation is that they increased as the corals started to decline, maybe because they stopped taking up the nutrients.
I have cuprisorb and metasorb, Carbon and rowaphos in the tank now and will do a number of water changes over the coming weeks in an attempt to remove the tin.

 

[Seabed]

It’s been over 3 months since my last post so time for an update.

Three 60% water changes performed followed by two 30% water changes.
Corals started to recover and new growth on SPS was evident. This lasted about 2-3 weeks before the corals started to decline again until recently when the few corals I had remaining went through RTN, this included 1 acro that had previously survived and a large frogspawn plus a few frags I bought when the tank picked up.

Ive sent another ICP test and I’m still showing 11ug/l tin

I can’t believe the water changes performed wouldn’t have diluted the tin to a much lower level also remembering that I have been running cuprisorb and metasorb, carbon and rowaphos, as these have all been suggested as possible absorbers of tin even though non advertised to do so.

I have again this weekend inspected every magnet and piece of equipment and no sign of corrosion anywhere.

The only plausible explanation I have is that the PVC pipework I added right at the point the tank started to decline is the culprit.

Currently performing weekly 30% water changes again and will send an icp test this time to confirm tin has actually been removed before seeing if it reappears

Ive also taken off line my aqua Forrest component 123 dosing and intend to leave it off line for the foreseeable to eliminate another possible introduction source however unlikely this may be.

My question is, does anyone think that if the PVC is the culprit, is it possible that it could still be leaching tin 9 months after being installed?

Could the cuprisorb have released tin back into the water as it’s never been changed?