Critique my ATO plan

Grant Beyleveld

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Hi all,

I'm in the planning stage of of a build and I designed an ATO system that I think would work well for me, but I wanted to get some more experienced reefers' opinions along the way. First and foremost, the entire system is designed around a couple of core tenets, and the ATO must obey these too:
  1. Low maintenance
    I'm a busy person, and if something can be automated in any way, then it's more likely to be done and done properly.
  2. Aesthetically pleasing
    Like many of you, I have a partner and he won't enjoy our apartment being cluttered up. So everything must go inside the stand or out of the way. Also, we live in an apartment so there really isn't space for things to go just anywhere, like next to the tank or in the non-existent basement.
So, with that in mind, here goes:

The tank will be near enough to the wash closet, so the RODI will live there with a ~30ish gallon reservoir. For refilling the reservoir, there will be a Neptune FMM with two OS-1-M magnetic optical sensors (low and high mark), as well as a BRS float valve above the highest optical sensor for redundancy (the BRS RODI units have auto shut off valves pre-installed, which work in concert with the float valve). An aquabus cable will run from the Apex on my DT to this FMM module, and the ACC port on the FMM module will control a Neptune SV-1 solenoid for refilling the 30gal reservoir (this requires the FMM module to be powered by a 24V 36W PSU, supplied in the Neptune ATK kit which I'll also have, see next paragraph). Thus, when the reservoir gets low, the optical sensor at the bottom will trigger and the normally-closed (NC) solenoid will open and begin filling the reservoir. When the reservoir is full, the high optical sensor will shut off the solenoid, and if that fails the float valve will catch it. I can also set a maximum on time for the solenoid in Apex Fusion as a final layer of redundancy. Finally, there will be a Neptune LD-2 leak detection probe near the reservoir as a last resort. I've even considered a standalone battery powered leak detection system in case the Apex fails in some way. Maybe that's overkill.

Now that the reservoir is automatically kept full, I'll get a Neptune ATK kit for the DT. It has a float value and two optical sensors on a magnetic mount which will monitor the water level in the sump. Running parallel with that aquabus cable to the wash closet will be a 1/4" pipe connected to the Neptune PMUPv2 in the reservoir, and a 1 Link extension cable to power the pump. I'll also have LD-2 probes in the sump in case of leaks, which would cut power to the return pump and the ATK pump.

I would have preferred to not run the aquabus cable to the site of the reservoir/RODI but the FMM can't be used in this manner in standalone mode because it's designed to be used with the pump for adding RODI water to the tank, not with a solenoid for filling a reservoir. As such, in standalone mode the ACC port will only supply power (i.e. to run the pump or, in my case, open the solenoid) for 5 minutes once per hour. That won't do for filling the reservoir. This limitation is unfortunate, but it is what it is. In any case, that FMM in the wash closet only has one ACC port and so even if standalone mode would work, it'd still only be able to power either the solenoid or the pump, not both. So I'd be running the 1 Link extension anyway.

In summary: I have a reservoir that is automatically kept full of RODI water and an ATO that automatically keeps my tank water levels in place (Automated; check #1) and the ATO reservoir is out of the way (aesthetically pleasing; check #2).

If anyone can find any major design flaws, gotchas, considerations, warnings, improvements or praise, please lay it on me. As I said, I'm in the design phase and so I'd love feedback before I spend money and time setting myself up for failure.
 
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Grant Beyleveld

Grant Beyleveld

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Hi! Me again. I also decided jump in and give this thread the first reply, because I had a modified (simplified and cheaper) version of this, but I'm less sure it will work and felt I needed/wanted input on this version too.

I opted for the reservoir in place of going directly from the RODI to the tank because, I've read, a significant amount of TDS comes through the RODI right when you turn it on. Thus, if every time the tank level drops and the ATO runs the RODI directly for a few mins, I'd be adding TDS to the tank each time. This way, only a small amount enters the reservoir at the beginning and should be sufficiently diluted by the time the 30gal reservoir is full.

But, if I install an Auto Flush Flow Restrictor, will this obfuscate the TDS problem and enable me to skip the reservoir (and the second FMM, two optical sensors, etc.) and just hook the tank directly to the RODI system? I know I know, hooking a tank directly to an RODI system is dangerous etc. etc. But frankly, a malfunctioning ATO on a 30gal reservoir is just as dangerous in terms of flooding the tank and severely altering the salinity. I would have the same redundancies in place: float valve in the sump to shutoff the RODI, leak detection probes to kill the solenoid, and (definitely in this case) a third party (Apex-independent) battery-operated leak detection NC solenoid as a last resort.
 

Blue Spot Octopus

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Looks like you have a good grasp on your system., but redundancy is key. What is your water pressure?
 

mike550

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@Grant Beyleveld this is an interesting setup. I’m having a bit of trouble visualizing all of it but the one failure point where I can’t see how you’ve created safety or redundancy is if the ATO pump stays open and starts draining the reservoir. I’ve seen others use a Tunze 3155 for the ATO and then using a separate high water water level sensor in the sump that shuts down power to the ATO pump if it triggers.
 
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Grant Beyleveld

Grant Beyleveld

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Looks like you have a good grasp on your system., but redundancy is key. What is your water pressure?

No idea unfortunately. I guess I could figure it out. How do you think it makes a difference?

@Grant Beyleveld this is an interesting setup. I’m having a bit of trouble visualizing all of it but the one failure point where I can’t see how you’ve created safety or redundancy is if the ATO pump stays open and starts draining the reservoir. I’ve seen others use a Tunze 3155 for the ATO and then using a separate high water water level sensor in the sump that shuts down power to the ATO pump if it triggers.

The pump is controlled by the Neptune ATK, so it has two optical sensors and a float valve. I'll also have a time limit on the pump and a lead detector by the sump to detect overflows.
 
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sharpimage

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30 gallons is quite a bit of top off water. You may not need to fill it that often. It may just be simpler to manually turn on the rodi machine every 2 months or so.
 

Tastee

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I’m about to setup my RO station in a similar fashion, all Apex managed. I use ATKs to fill my RSR gravity fed reservoirs (2 tanks, RSR 250 and 525 XL) once daily - figure that prolongs the life of the PMUP by avoiding short cycling. One tank is up and running this way for 2 years, the bigger tank is in it’s build phase now and not running with ATO just yet. I like the gravity fed ATO as it runs continuously 24x7 and I don’t have any issues with them gumming up. Cleaning every couple of months and an optical sensor in the sump for redundancy (to alert to low level) work perfectly for me.

For the RO, mine is located outside so I can safely skip some of the redundancy you need. Your plan sounds quite solid. The only thing I am planning that is different to you is how I am planning to deal with TDS creep. I am not sure what an ‘Auto Flush Flow Restrictor’ is so don‘t quite understand that part.

In my case I will insert a Tee between the RO and DI cartridge and a 2 way TDS meter either side of the RO cartridge. The Tee will go to an Apex solenoid and then to waste. I already have a 2 way TDS meter monitoring input and output. Here is the planned sequence. Hopefully the formatting works - pardon all the ...s but I needed that to get the post to look correct. An inlet solenoid (S1) controls the system like in your plan.

.................................................................................................................Waste
......................................................................................................................^
......................................................................................................................|
.............................................................................................................Solenoid (S2)
......................................................................................................................^
......................................................................................................................|
Supply —> TDS in —> Sediment —> Carbon —> TDS RO in —> RO—+—> TDS RO out —> DI —> TDS out

I then configure the Apex to open S2 when S1 opens and leave S2 open for 2 mins. This will allow the first 2 mins of RO to go to waste before S2 closes and the system starts making RODI. The extra TDS meter is just to allow me to determine when the various cartridges need replacing. I’ll replace the sediment and carbon as a pair once I find TDS RO in starts to rise above the baseline and the RO based on TDS RO out. DI then based on visual and TDS out. My TDS in is around 75 so I get good life out of all of the cartridges.
 
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Grant Beyleveld

Grant Beyleveld

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Does your RO/DI machine have a gauge, you want to be around 70.

Maybe I wasn’t clear enough - I’m still in the planning phase so I don’t actually have an RO/DI yet! But this is useful information and I’ve made a note. Thanks!

30 gallons is quite a bit of top off water. You may not need to fill it that often. It may just be simpler to manually turn on the rodi machine every 2 months or so.

Thanks for the reply. This is certainly something to consider. It’s a cheaper alternative too! Naturally, the reservoir would empty out right before a vacation or something, so I’d likely still want to have a low water optical sensor in place, but it only needs to send an alarm/notification.
 

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