Cryptic Zone for Sponges in the Sump/Refugium

[JOKER]

My whole sump is covered in these.

 

[JOKER]

Any idea what sponge?

 

[bif24701]

What is in KZ sponge power I wonder that helps the sponges. Could it be silica? Is that not what they make the skeletons from?

 

[Ashish Patel]

My whole sump is covered in these.

Looks like pineapple sponge. They tend to thrive in newer system and soon as they get wacked with nutrient or excess particles they start to disappear. At least that's my unscientific opinion

 

[bif24701]

My main sump is a Rubbermaid 100g stock tank. With LR and MarinePure, some sand and a course plastic bio media with large holes that should grow breast sponge. After reading through the thread and doing some additional research I removed one WAV pump from my display and placed it in the sump for added flow. I only had an RW-8 in there, it only moved water and didn't provide any real flow. My display still have over 100x's turnover in flow. I assume this is why I haven't seen much growth in there due to the slow moving water and food just settling rather than moving around for things to eat for filter out. The WAV is really moving the water in there now, 100% constant 24/7. I want to give this KZ sponge power a try. I know it's a well known and used product so at least should provide some benefit to sponges. I've got plenty of sponge on the underside and between the rocks in my display.

Any thoughts?

 

[TbyZ]

My main sump is a Rubbermaid 100g stock tank. With LR and MarinePure, some sand and a course plastic bio media with large holes that should grow breast sponge. After reading through the thread and doing some additional research I removed one WAV pump from my display and placed it in the sump for added flow. I only had an RW-8 in there, it only moved water and didn't provide any real flow. My display still have over 100x's turnover in flow. I assume this is why I haven't seen much growth in there due to the slow moving water and food just settling rather than moving around for things to eat for filter out. The WAV is really moving the water in there now, 100% constant 24/7. I want to give this KZ sponge power a try. I know it's a well known and used product so at least should provide some benefit to sponges. I've got plenty of sponge on the underside and between the rocks in my display.

Any thoughts?

cryptic sponges prefer very slow flow & should be kept away from particulate matter; it blocks their passages. They filter (eat) dissolved organics & bacteria.

If you want to learn the correct way to establish a zonal system, including cryptic zone & filter feeder zone, for example, look here
Zonal Complete Package Deal or CMAT vol 1 & 2

http://reeffarmers.contentshelf.com/shop

 

[Ashish Patel]

My main sump is a Rubbermaid 100g stock tank. With LR and MarinePure, some sand and a course plastic bio media with large holes that should grow breast sponge. After reading through the thread and doing some additional research I removed one WAV pump from my display and placed it in the sump for added flow. I only had an RW-8 in there, it only moved water and didn't provide any real flow. My display still have over 100x's turnover in flow. I assume this is why I haven't seen much growth in there due to the slow moving water and food just settling rather than moving around for things to eat for filter out. The WAV is really moving the water in there now, 100% constant 24/7. I want to give this KZ sponge power a try. I know it's a well known and used product so at least should provide some benefit to sponges. I've got plenty of sponge on the underside and between the rocks in my display.

Any thoughts?

I think slow-medium indirect flow is essential. Sponges will self regulate but flow ensures they can flush out their systems. I can adjust my flow so still trying to figure out ideal flow. Right now I am just giving enough flow so detritus buildup wont accure

 

[bif24701]

cryptic sponges prefer very slow flow & should be kept away from particulate matter; it blocks their passages. They filter (eat) dissolved organics & bacteria.

If you want to learn the correct way to establish a zonal system, including cryptic zone & filter feeder zone, for example, look here
Zonal Complete Package Deal or CMAT vol 1 & 2

http://reeffarmers.contentshelf.com/shop

I may have confused you. My display is very high flow. However I added the WAV to the 100 gallon sump because it had just barely more flow than a stagnate pond. The WAV is pointed at the surface and ensures the water at lest moves. 100% in the sump might be too much but 50% seems just right.

Thank you for the link, I am very interested in this and will take a look at it.

Still, I have huge amounts of flow in the display and an equal amount of sponge in there. Yet no sponge what so ever to speak of in the sump. This clearly indicates to me with my personnel experience And observation that more flow is needed for filter feeders to thrive there in the sump.

 

[bif24701]

I think slow-medium indirect flow is essential. Sponges will self regulate but flow ensures they can flush out their systems. I can adjust my flow so still trying to figure out ideal flow. Right now I am just giving enough flow so detritus buildup wont accure

I can tell you the RW-8 wasn’t cutting it and one WAV pump pointed to the surface at 50% IMO creates a perfect steady movement of water throughout the large sump. Did I mention it’s 100 gallons, at least 75 gallons of water in operation.

 

[trido]

I have a cryptic zone under my skimmer in my big sump. It grows plenty of sponge with the 100+ pounds of LR in it. The other day when I did a refugium breakdown cleaning I found seven kinds of sponge on the 30 pounds of LR in there. Blue, Orange, Yellow, White, Black, Pineapple and some sort of orange ball sponge. I haven't added any of it intentionally. I keep it all alive by quickly putting the rocks into a cooler full of tank water when cleaning it all. Every bit of biolife in your system plays a role in some way. Even the 100 aptasia in my overflow box.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I may have confused you. My display is very high flow. However I added the WAV to the 100 gallon sump because it had just barely more flow than a stagnate pond. The WAV is pointed at the surface and ensures the water at lest moves. 100% in the sump might be too much but 50% seems just right.

Thank you for the link, I am very interested in this and will take a look at it.

Still, I have huge amounts of flow in the display and an equal amount of sponge in there. Yet no sponge what so ever to speak of in the sump. This clearly indicates to me with my personnel experience And observation that more flow is needed for filter feeders to thrive there in the sump.

No i got you I was actually referring to the previous comment about "slow flow"~ I think they will grow in many different environments but strong indirect they seem to grow faster.. The Wav pump will also help stir up detritus and help oxygenate the water so kudos.

 

[TbyZ]

No i got you I was actually referring to the previous comment about "slow flow"~ I think they will grow in many different environments but strong indirect they seem to grow faster.. The Wav pump will also help stir up detritus and help oxygenate the water so kudos.

Oxygenating the water is critical for sponges, but the problem with strong flow >>is<< that it stirs up detritus.
Detritus & even small particulate matter will block the sponges passageways it uses to feed; on disolved organics & bacteria. Blocking these passages will kill them.

You need filter feeders to take care of particulates, in a seperate zone to the sponges.

 

[bif24701]

Oxygenating the water is critical for sponges, but the problem with strong flow >>is<< that it stirs up detritus.
Detritus & even small particulate matter will block the sponges passageways it uses to feed; on disolved organics & bacteria. Blocking these passages will kill them.

You need filter feeders to take care of particulates, in a seperate zone to the sponges.

I don’t disagree, don’t have enough knowledge on subject to even have an opinion. I do have a question, my display has sponge all over and I have crazy amounts of flow. You are saying that in the cryptic area that moderate flow that prevents excess detritus being stirred I would have better sponge growth. There is nothing in there right now, just some feather dusters. I want to add that my water passes through my skimmer sump between the display and cryptic sump.

 

[TbyZ]

I don’t disagree, don’t have enough knowledge on subject to even have an opinion. I do have a question, my display has sponge all over and I have crazy amounts of flow. You are saying that in the cryptic area that moderate flow that prevents excess detritus being stirred I would have better sponge growth. There is nothing in there right now, just some feather dusters. I want to add that my water passes through my skimmer sump between the display and cryptic sump.

My only source of knowledge on this topic comes from the inventor of the cryptic sponge & sea squirt filtration method, Steve Tyree. Or as he calls it "the environmental gradient"

Cryptic sponges are different to the typical sponges that you can see in your "exposed zone" (full light & strong currents).
Tyree strongly recommends that stirred up detritus should be eliminated from the cryptic sponge zone. I imagine it ensures their longevity.
If you already have feather dusters you are on your way.
Really, if you're serious about it, buy at least CMAT volume 2. its only 12 bucks

 

[Ashish Patel]

I did read Steve tyree article regarding the detritus elimination. This is 1 of the reason why I feed the cryptic sump via return line. Most of the detritus ends up in the skimmer of sump floor. I just added a 2nd layer to the sump with some dry rock and increased the flow some. I made about 10 1/4" holes in the feed line so water is gently flowing where I want it. Even with a good amount of flow its still gentle but I can't see any deadspots - Kind of like a closed loop flow!

 

[TbyZ]

I'm convinced of this as well, but it's not based on any tangible proof that I am aware of. I simple observe a correlation between seemingly thriving SPS and the presence of sponges.

Element cycling on tropical coral reefs... Goeij, Jasper Merijn de
http://www.rug.nl/research/portal/files/14555035/13completethesis.pdf

start from chapter 3 on.

sponges in cryptic cavities have been measured for doc take up on natural reefs. They are far more efficient than bacteria.
sponges also remove pelagic bacteria from the water column.

 

[TbyZ]

I did read Steve tyree article regarding the detritus elimination. This is 1 of the reason why I feed the cryptic sump via return line. Most of the detritus ends up in the skimmer of sump floor. I just added a 2nd layer to the sump with some dry rock and increased the flow some. I made about 10 1/4" holes in the feed line so water is gently flowing where I want it. Even with a good amount of flow its still gentle but I can't see any deadspots - Kind of like a closed loop flow!

very sexy set up

I can see the outlet of your cryptic box, but you say you feed it from the return?

 

[Ashish Patel]

very sexy set up

I can see the outlet of your cryptic box, but you say you feed it from the return?

Thanks TbyZ

Here is some better shots of the cryptic zone. The water feeds through the back and the pvc goes to to the bottom and has 10 small holes pointed around the rockwork and surface skimming ensure this area stays clean of floating particles. I left enough room to syphon out any detritus or blast the sponges if needed with a long baster.

 

[TbyZ]

Thanks TbyZ

Here is some better shots of the cryptic zone. The water feeds through the back and the pvc goes to to the bottom and has 10 small holes pointed around the rockwork and surface skimming ensure this area stays clean of floating particles. I left enough room to syphon out any detritus or blast the sponges if needed with a long baster.

I see! Your feeding your very sexy 'cryptic zone box' through the clear tubing from your return pump.
Excellent.
I like that you have a clear acrylic front panel so you can still see what's going on, down in '''the cryptic zone''' ;Vamp ;Cyclops ;Lurking ;Nailbiting

Some questions -
1. did you get a solid black acrylic lid with the box?
2. does the inlet pipe feed the top layer, or have you got it plumbed down nearer the bottom level?

 

[Ashish Patel]

I see! Your feeding your very sexy 'cryptic zone box' through the clear tubing from your return pump.
Excellent.
I like that you have a clear acrylic front panel so you can still see what's going on, down in '''the cryptic zone''' ;Vamp ;Cyclops ;Lurking ;Nailbiting

Some questions -
1. did you get a solid black acrylic lid with the box?
2. does the inlet pipe feed the top layer, or have you got it plumbed down nearer the bottom level?

Thanks, regarding the black acrlyic, this was a must since I wanted photosynthetic animals (aiptasia, algaes, etc) to never call this place home. Besides its a cryptic zone so I am sure other cave like creatures will pop up. I wanted a viewing panel since this is my first one and I can observe how things are and adjust the flow and clean it if needed. My cryptic sump is under 6 gallons but more that adequate space for them to multiply. Looking at cryptic life is fun - The other day I saw a large white tube like worm in the LR. It almost looked the sponge.

regarding you questions, I wanted to get a lid but didn't want to add on more cost, Not much light shines into the sump even with the fuge light on so perhaps will cover with some cheap acrylic board if I feel its needed. I only had 2 holes drilled at the top so the sump can never drain out by accident to the 10" sump line. The goal is to keep this sump in tact when I do move in the next year without having any nutrient spikes!