Cryptic Zone for Sponges in the Sump/Refugium

[Ashish Patel]

My tank is relatively new but I have sponges growing in my protein skimmer, overflow box, and sump bottom (pineapple and chickenliver sponge). I have found they only grow where their is good flow and low light so want to make a place that is specifically for them so I can eventually clean the skimmer out. This will serve me better for future build as I'll be able to relocate the sponges without having mass die offs. Sponges are so vital to our mini ecosystem, more than we give credit for. Why not make a area for them that they can multiply like weeds?

Any one doing a small cryptic zone for sponge in their sump?

 

[mcarroll]

@Steve Tyree is the biggest proponent of zones that I know of. Tri-zonal!

 

[CastAway]

Sponges are so vital to our mini ecosystem, more than we give credit for.

I'm convinced of this as well, but it's not based on any tangible proof that I am aware of. I simple observe a correlation between seemingly thriving SPS and the presence of sponges.

My experience was that pineapple sponges were more a matter of time & maturity than zonal. Although this may be very subjective. I had them, and now I don't.

Other sponges, encrusting purples and yellows for example, seem more zonal in my system. I worry about them however as I think they are quite toxic when dying back.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I'm convinced of this as well, but it's not based on any tangible proof that I am aware of. I simple observe a correlation between seemingly thriving SPS and the presence of sponges.

My experience was that pineapple sponges were more a matter of time & maturity than zonal. Although this may be very subjective. I had them, and now I don't.

Other sponges, encrusting purples and yellows for example, seem more zonal in my system. I worry about them however as I think they are quite toxic when dying back.

Agreed.. They must be filtering toxins, or releasing something (or both), that helps SPS thrive. The oceans reef are one giant symbiotic relationship and I intend to harbor it in a plastic box - I have a few different kinds of sponge (including a yellow colored one covered in substrate!). Hopefully its not toxic...

 

[Timfish1]

Steve Tyree has written a couple books on cryptic zones and the critical role of sponges and they're available on his website. Dr. Jasper de Goeij's research has shown some sponges actually feed primarily on the dissolved organic carbon (DOC) released by algae and corals converting it into nutrient rich detritus, some is converted back into inorganic nitrogen and inorganic phosphate and some is respired as dissolved inorganic carbon (DIC, mostly HCO3-). One of his discoveries is cryptic sponges remove DOC in 30 minutes what bacteria take weeks to remove. To get a better idea what DOC does and how it moderates the microbial processes on reefs and corals Dr. Forest Rohwer's "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" is an excellent place to start.

 

[Ashish Patel]

Thanks for this article.. Amazing find!!! It just put into contents what I already believed. However, the findings are even surprising to me.

I am actually making a removable refugium chamber in my sump (so I can drain the sump without issues aswell as avoid air bubbles). They will reproduce fast if given ideal surface area to do their thing so looking forward to having a sponge refugium. in the wild their nutrient export is Sponges, Bacteria, algae and tons of animals. Too bad we can't buy LR covered sponges that is actually kept underwater, I feel this would be worth the expensive and a reason why I got LR covered in sponges from a local hobbyist.

 

[mcarroll]

I don't know if you looked up anything on Steve when I mentioned him earlier, but you might like this as well:
Review of Tyree's "Cryptic Filtration" - WetWebMedia

and this

Farmed Sponges and Sea Squirts Reeffarmers
(scroll down for ordering info)

 

[Ashish Patel]

I don't know if you looked up anything on Steve when I mentioned him earlier, but you might like this as well:
Review of Tyree's "Cryptic Filtration" - WetWebMedia

and this

Farmed Sponges and Sea Squirts Reeffarmers
(scroll down for ordering info)

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Ashish Patel]

Its taken awhile but I have finally found a acrylic manufacture that gave me a fair price for an acrylic chamber that is 20" tall, 12" long, and 6" wide. This chamber will sit on the left of my skimmer and fed via manifold with water flowing upwards and draining out from a bulkhead. I have sponges covered rock in my refugium but don't consider it ideal for chaeto and sponges to co-exist. If given dark areas with good flow and clean water I believe in 6 months my cryptic fuge will be thriving. Will post updates once sump is ready!

 

[Ashish Patel]

Finally got my Cryptic zone setup.. A fellow hobbyist has been saving me this piece of Live rock that was pretty much 70% covered in sponge and growing in his tank for over 10 years. Hopefully my tank matures even fasters now! Let me know what you think!

 

[Midrats]

The skimmer and UV may put a damper on your cryptic zone.

 

[Ashish Patel]

The skimmer and UV may put a damper on your cryptic zone.

Not really concerned with the skimmer since I only run it for 16 hours per day.. UV filter I am thinking might be a negative if run 24-7. So I am debating if I should even run it at all.

 

[Midrats]

The UV might be ok. It all depends on the wattage of the unit and the flow going through it.

 

[CastAway]

Trying to remove clutter in my display, especially when cleaning my sand bed, I'll sometimes put small rock in my sump. This piece happened to have some sponge on it, at least three different varieties, that's taken off down there in the dark.

 

[Ashish Patel]

Trying to remove clutter in my display, especially when cleaning my sand bed, I'll sometimes put small rock in my sump. This piece happened to have some sponge on it, at least three different varieties, that's taken off down there in the dark.

WOW What i'd do to add that rock to my cryptic sump- I am going to add a lot of rubble so I can harvest it for others in the future as I know how much of pain it is to find someone who sells it. I am very happy with my cryptic chamber I can create the perfect environment for sponges and keep it submerged when I drain the sump for water change and cleaning. The rock I added was from a fellow reefer who was kind enough to give it to me for $30. I've had it for 10 days and can't say I notice any die off but I did keep it 70% underwater... IMO I believe sponges, along with algae, and skimming is the best method of water purification since it evolves and adjusts based on ones bio load. I am not that good where I factor in my fishes growth in ratio to say dosing NOPOX or vodka! Sponges adjust this for me

 

[mcarroll]

I don't think UV will keep the sponge from eating...it'll pre-kill what it's eating, maybe.

A skimmer might compete a bit, but skimmers really aren't all that good at what they do.

That said, a skimmer will rapidly make up for off-time....being off for 8 hours isn't much different from being on 24/7.

Filter socks and other mechanical filters are gone, right? They will compete.

 

[mcarroll]

Amazing footage of sponges pumping! - YouTube

 

[Ashish Patel]

I don't think UV will keep the sponge from eating...it'll pre-kill what it's eating, maybe.

A skimmer might compete a bit, but skimmers really aren't all that good at what they do.

That said, a skimmer will rapidly make up for off-time....being off for 8 hours isn't much different from being on 24/7.

Filter socks and other mechanical filters are gone, right? They will compete.

mcaroll - I think you mentioned to me on another thread about keeping the skimmer on.. I actually found it more beneficial to run 24-7 but just adjusting the skim line down slightly. This way nutrients are left in the tank for other organism. I completely removed mechanical filter and since the cryptic zone is fed via manifold I know their is food particles and disolved organics going into the cryptic zone. I will say the chaeto is not growing as well as it was but my nutrient parameters have been steady for 2 weeks. Nitrates .5 PO .0.03 with slight fluctuations of each. nitrates I hope to increase overtime but not at the 7 month mark where algae (some hair, cyano, and other unknowns) seems to be a concern at my present nutrient levels.

 

[mcarroll]

Nice!

 

[leicaguy]

I always keep sponges in my sps reef tanks, especially orange sponge, spider sponge etc I have found sponge power by KZ is amazing to assist them thrive I do not keep blue sponge and have had some disasters in my SPS tanks with large colonies dying when I introduce blue sponge, it also reproduces like weed in my past tanks! I guess I just try to keep my reef tanks simple and stable. After 55 years that is what I have observed from keeping small crabs from the ocean as a child to large thriving reef tanks, currently at my age I have a "nano" tank 125 gallons! easy to manage as a geriatric reefer ! Happy reefing everyone