Sump in basement, multiple display tanks two floors up

[jcarlding]

I owe my twin girls tanks in each of their rooms, and little 2-4 gallons freshwater tanks just won’t get it for me…

My plan…
Give them 3.5 gallon reef tanks supplied by a massively oversized sump and faux display in the basement!!!

Build sump in basement suitable for our future 100+ gallon display on first floor.

Use that sump for now to circulate water to my girls’ tanks on 2nd floor so they can have (nano???) small but stable tanks that don’t really require daily close attention.

My circulator pump is capable of 9.5 meters lift, so we are fully covered on pump capacity. I’m building a discharge manifold at the sump that will handle their tanks for now and later incorporate our main display and perhaps even a tank for my son.

Return flow: utilizing beananimal silent 3-pipe overflow concept only scaled down for bitty bitty tanks. I’m in the stage of contemplating what size will work for a 3.5 gallon display, but from my research, at this time I’m considering using 1/2” per for the three return lines and 1/4” supply line from our discharge manifold

Next to the sump I’m putting a nicely sized dedicated Refugium that will act as mostly just increased system volume. I do not anticipate doing much in this tank but increasing the stability of the system. I may try coral development and fish in this tank but only for stability purposes.

I will make some images as I fumble forward with the piping and build.

 

[Fish Fan]

I would just do two small AIO tanks for your girl's rooms, and then plan and build the sump for your main display tank.

@BeanAnimal

Good luck however you do it!

 

[TheReefAbides]

just out of curiosity will these be fish only or corals as well?

 

[jcarlding]

I would just do two small AIO tanks for your girl's rooms, and then plan and build the sump for your main display tank.

@BeanAnimal

Good luck however you do it!

We did that when they first jumped in with fresh water. Didn’t last long, so I hatched the idea of having them be remote displays for the the larger system

 

[jcarlding]

just out of curiosity will these be fish only or corals as well?

I want them to be able to to both. I don’t much see the point of a marine tank if it’s not balanced for coral life

 

[fish_collector]

To be able to have 2 small displays remotely from your sump where water parameters were of no concern to whomever is looking at them seems like a good plan in theory. I would seriously have to question 1/4" return plumbing though. The likelihood of it fouling with bacterial slime and clogging up would be my concern. Id use 1/2 plumbing and use a ball valve to control the volume for the return, and 3/4 for the drains. Such a small volume of water, especially inside an overflow, leaves hardly no room for error with flow mismatches that occur once in a while. It'd work no doubt, but would be out of my comfort zone for sure.

And I agree 2 small AIO tanks would be my workaround.

 

[Fish Fan]

I want them to be able to to both. I don’t much see the point of a marine tank if it’s not balanced for coral life

If you're looking at a 3.5 gallon tank, there's really no fish suitable for such a small tank. Possibly, you could cram in one very small goby, but I wouldn't personally, and I think that would be boring for your daughters. If you're thinking about Clownfish, then you really need 10 gallons minimum for one, and 15 gallons minimum for a pair, which would likely be the only fish you could keep in that tank as Clownfish are extremely aggressive towards other fish.

If you want to stick with 3.5 gallons, consider some cool, smaller inverts that would otherwise get lost in a larger tank. Some Rock Flower Anemone and some Sexy Shrimp could be the stars in a small pico tank. Other shrimps and interesting crabs would also be a good fit.

Is this your first venture into saltwater? I feel like you are putting far too much emphasis on "greater volume = greater stability"; that's been blown way out of proportion, in my opinion. There's no need for massive sump volumes and huge refugiums in order to have a stable and successful tank.

A very simple and effective way to easily manage two 3.5 gallon picos would be to get a 5 gallon, food-grade bucket from your local Mega-Lo-Mart, a small circ pump, and a small heater. Use this to pre-mix and pre-heat saltwater for water changes. Ensure that the water in your bucket is the same temp and salinity as your tank's water, and change out 50% of the tank's water each week. That will keep your tank stable, replenish macro and micro nutrients with no need to test or dose anything, and it couldn't be easier; less than 5 minutes per tank each week

I think you're very much overcomplicating your plan to try to plumb such small tanks to such a large sump, but again, if he has a minute, @BeanAnimal is very good with these kinds of questions.

I hope that helps!

 

[jcarlding]

I want them to be able to to both. I don’t much see the point of a marine tank if it’s not balanced for coral life

If you're looking at a 3.5 gallon tank, there's really no fish suitable for such a small tank. Possibly, you could cram in one very small goby, but I wouldn't personally, and I think that would be boring for your daughters. If you're thinking about Clownfish, then you really need 10 gallons minimum for one, and 15 gallons minimum for a pair, which would likely be the only fish you could keep in that tank as Clownfish are extremely aggressive towards other fish.

If you want to stick with 3.5 gallons, consider some cool, smaller inverts that would otherwise get lost in a larger tank. Some Rock Flower Anemone and some Sexy Shrimp could be the stars in a small pico tank. Other shrimps and interesting crabs would also be a good fit.

Is this your first venture into saltwater? I feel like you are putting far too much emphasis on "greater volume = greater stability"; that's been blown way out of proportion, in my opinion. There's no need for massive sump volumes and huge refugiums in order to have a stable and successful tank.

A very simple and effective way to easily manage two 3.5 gallon picos would be to get a 5 gallon, food-grade bucket from your local Mega-Lo-Mart, a small circ pump, and a small heater. Use this to pre-mix and pre-heat saltwater for water changes. Ensure that the water in your bucket is the same temp and salinity as your tank's water, and change out 50% of the tank's water each week. That will keep your tank stable, replenish macro and micro nutrients with no need to test or dose anything, and it couldn't be easier; less than 5 minutes per tank each week

I think you're very much overcomplicating your plan to try to plumb such small tanks to such a large sump, but again, if he has a minute, @BeanAnimal is very good with these kinds of questions.

I hope that helps!

It’s more that I intend to have the 100+ gallon display tank in our living room. I feel that having a few remote displays aside from the main display should not be a big issue and in the end will centralize the maintenance activity.

Thank you for your thoughts on suitable fish for such a small tank. I see no reason we can’t hit the 10 gallon mark for their remote tanks.

 

[Fish Fan]

Thank you for your thoughts on suitable fish for such a small tank. I see no reason we can’t hit the 10 gallon mark for their remote tanks.

You're welcome, and stepping into 10 gallons not only open you up to some fish, but I think then your original plan may be more doable too, though still complicated

If anything goes wrong with any one of the overflows, you could be looking at a flood. And now instead of having a few gallons of water on the floor, your system just pumped 100+ gallons of water into one of your daughter's rooms.

Keep in mind too, when all these tanks are connected, if a pest organism or pathogen enters one tank, it's now in all your tanks.

I fully get wanting a large, remote sump to support your main display tank, that's a solid plan

 

[jcarlding]

To be able to have 2 small displays remotely from your sump where water parameters were of no concern to whomever is looking at them seems like a good plan in theory. I would seriously have to question 1/4" return plumbing though. The likelihood of it fouling with bacterial slime and clogging up would be my concern. Id use 1/2 plumbing and use a ball valve to control the volume for the return, and 3/4 for the drains. Such a small volume of water, especially inside an overflow, leaves hardly no room for error with flow mismatches that occur once in a while. It'd work no doubt, but would be out of my comfort zone for sure.

And I agree 2 small AIO tanks would be my workaround.

I like your point on the 1/4” return. Much better to have larger bore piping and choke back with valves.

 

[jcarlding]

Thank you for your thoughts on suitable fish for such a small tank. I see no reason we can’t hit the 10 gallon mark for their remote tanks.

You're welcome, and stepping into 10 gallons not only open you up to some fish, but I think then your original plan may be more doable too, though still complicated

If anything goes wrong with any one of the overflows, you could be looking at a flood. And now instead of having a few gallons of water on the floor, your system just pumped 100+ gallons of water into one of your daughter's rooms.

Keep in mind too, when all these tanks are connected, if a pest organism or pathogen enters one tank, it's now in all your tanks.

I fully get wanting a large, remote sump to support your main display tank, that's a solid plan

I will fully implement the beananimal silent 3-drain concept and I will size the drain lines such that the emergency overflow can handle a wide open run away supply discharge. Example: 1 each 1/4” supply vs 3 each 1/2” drain. I do research the flow characteristics of the piping I use to assure no floods are on the horizon.

 

[Gregory Stephens]

I owe my twin girls tanks in each of their rooms, and little 2-4 gallons freshwater tanks just won’t get it for me…

My plan…
Give them 3.5 gallon reef tanks supplied by a massively oversized sump and faux display in the basement!!!

Build sump in basement suitable for our future 100+ gallon display on first floor.

Use that sump for now to circulate water to my girls’ tanks on 2nd floor so they can have (nano???) small but stable tanks that don’t really require daily close attention.

My circulator pump is capable of 9.5 meters lift, so we are fully covered on pump capacity. I’m building a discharge manifold at the sump that will handle their tanks for now and later incorporate our main display and perhaps even a tank for my son.

Return flow: utilizing beananimal silent 3-pipe overflow concept only scaled down for bitty bitty tanks. I’m in the stage of contemplating what size will work for a 3.5 gallon display, but from my research, at this time I’m considering using 1/2” per for the three return lines and 1/4” supply line from our discharge manifold

Next to the sump I’m putting a nicely sized dedicated Refugium that will act as mostly just increased system volume. I do not anticipate doing much in this tank but increasing the stability of the system. I may try coral development and fish in this tank but only for stability purposes.

I will make some images as I fumble forward with the piping and build.

I've played with ideas like that for a long time. I was partners i a plumbing company at the time but my plumber pointed out all of the things that could go wrong

 

[jcarlding]

I owe my twin girls tanks in each of their rooms, and little 2-4 gallons freshwater tanks just won’t get it for me…

My plan…
Give them 3.5 gallon reef tanks supplied by a massively oversized sump and faux display in the basement!!!

Build sump in basement suitable for our future 100+ gallon display on first floor.

Use that sump for now to circulate water to my girls’ tanks on 2nd floor so they can have (nano???) small but stable tanks that don’t really require daily close attention.

My circulator pump is capable of 9.5 meters lift, so we are fully covered on pump capacity. I’m building a discharge manifold at the sump that will handle their tanks for now and later incorporate our main display and perhaps even a tank for my son.

Return flow: utilizing beananimal silent 3-pipe overflow concept only scaled down for bitty bitty tanks. I’m in the stage of contemplating what size will work for a 3.5 gallon display, but from my research, at this time I’m considering using 1/2” per for the three return lines and 1/4” supply line from our discharge manifold

Next to the sump I’m putting a nicely sized dedicated Refugium that will act as mostly just increased system volume. I do not anticipate doing much in this tank but increasing the stability of the system. I may try coral development and fish in this tank but only for stability purposes.

I will make some images as I fumble forward with the piping and build.

I've played with ideas like that for a long time. I was partners i a plumbing company at the time but my plumber pointed out all of the things that could go wrong

Like…pumping so many gph into a space and relying on gravity and physics for it to not flood! I get it! I’ll report back on my findings.

I assure you I intend to build in a safety factor

 

[DolphinDude09]

The only thing I could think of is that are your girls mature enough to not pour any unknown substance into the tank? Are you willing to take the risk of someone else crashing your tank from a different display? If not then I may be better for them to just share their own system with each other.

 

[jcarlding]

The only thing I could think of is that are your girls mature enough to not pour any unknown substance into the tank? Are you willing to take the risk of someone else crashing your tank from a different display? If not then I may be better for them to just share their own system with each other.

Yes they are mature enough now. When we first did their little tanks two years ago someone dumped in a whole jar of food and wrecked it. This time around, they are excited to be very careful with it. I will have a tight fitting lid and make sure they cover with a towel if anyone is cleaning in the room and spraying chemicals like glass cleaner.

Thank you for the comment!

 

[Dom]

I find this to be an interesting project.

Simply put, this is a multi tank build connected to one sump. But it won't be without its challenges.

When you mention the remote tanks on the 2nd floor with the sump in the basement, Head Height immediately came to mind. You are speaking of a head height of 16-20 feet. This will require a powerful pump.

And on the return side, how does the momentum of water flowing down 2 floors impact circulation? I don't know anything about hydro-dynamics, but I would think this is something to consider.

Opening walls to run plumbing is going to be a big, messy job. I would think the best way would be to have both tanks feed into one large pipe that heads back to the sump.

Were it my build, I too would go with a 10 gallon AIO in each room and make the 100 gallon build a separate project.