Current QT Protocol vs TTM Protocol

[arking_mark]

With @Jay Hemdal recent updated QT protocol and @Humblefish Hybrid TTM protocol, we have two tools to increase our success for keeping healthy fish and disease out of our display tanks.

As a Reefer, I'm always looking to use the right tool for job and preferably the easiest that ensures success.

Assuming both protocols work if followed correctly , which method should one use for which situations? Which one is more "work"? Which one costs more? Which one is more prone to errors?

To simplify the discussion, let's make the following assumptions.

Hybrid TTM will use 2 small buckets or tanks (5-10gal) with identical setups and provide adequate heating and aeration.

Current QT Protocol will use a larger insta-cycled tank with adequate heating, aeration, and size to house the fish for extended time.

Link to Current QT Protocol:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/current-quarantine-protocol.825055/
Link to Hybrid TTM:
https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/hybrid-ttm-to-treat-all-parasites.87/

 

[arking_mark]

I can see two situations where one protocol should be used over the other:
1. Hybrid TTM for any copper sensitive or finicky eaters.
2. Current QT Protocol when working with many fish at once as TTM doesn't scale well (mostly do to costs)

With regard to cost, I think it's a wash based on how I have set them up.
Current QT Protocol: 20gal tank, HOB filter, heater, filter media, Ammonia Tester, Copper Tester, Copper, General Cure, etc...
Hybrid TTM: 2 x 5gal tanks, 2 HOB filters, 2 heaters, filter media, Ammonia Tester, General Cure, Hydrogen Peroxide, etc...

With regard to more "work", Hybrid TTM Protocol is less work in my opinion. Cleaning out small tanks every 3 days for 13 days for Hybrid TTM vs monitoring Ammonia and Copper and making adjustments and then removing Copper and also maintaing a tank for Current QT Protocol for 62 days.

Lastly, but most importantly which protocol is "prone to more errors", because this is what usually kills fish. In my opinion TTM is the clear winner. You don't have to worry about the fish's Copper tolerance, you can't overdose or underdose Copper, and you don't really have to worry about Ammonia or maintaining a tank for an extended period. Transfer stress to fish is a concern...but I'm not sure it's more or less stressful than Copper.

Given these factors, I almost always use a variation of TTM.

 

[threebuoys]

The first question that must be asked: Are both methods successful?

The only way to really know the answer to that question is if you know the fish to be treated have crypto or velvet parasites when they are introduced to the protocol.

I imagine many hobbyists may have never experienced these parasites and would swear the method they used, or no method at all, successfully eliminates these parasites.

I am guilty of adding fish directly to my display tank in the past without using either method. In most of those cases I was really lucky, nothing materialized. But in the cases where something showed up later, I absolutely used copper, to eliminate the problem. Those situations occurred in FOWLR systems and 55 gallon tanks. With coral in play, and a much larger tank whith too many hiding places for fish for me to attempt to net them, I want to be confident the procedure I use will work.

For my peace of mind, I'm using the QT protocol.

 

[arking_mark]

The first question that must be asked: Are both methods successful?

The only way to really know the answer to that question is if you know the fish to be treated have crypto or velvet parasites when they are introduced to the protocol.

I imagine many hobbyists may have never experienced these parasites and would swear the method they used, or no method at all, successfully eliminates these parasites.

I am guilty of adding fish directly to my display tank in the past without using either method. In most of those cases I was really lucky, nothing materialized. But in the cases where something showed up later, I absolutely used copper, to eliminate the problem. Those situations occurred in FOWLR systems and 55 gallon tanks. With coral in play, and a much larger tank whith too many hiding places for fish for me to attempt to net them, I want to be confident the procedure I use will work.

For my peace of mind, I'm using the QT protocol.

So lack of confidence in Hybrid TTM for QT.

Now, you also brought up having an existing fish with an issue. In that case, you're probably doing a hospital tank and addressing symptoms...which is beyond the scope of this discussion. Steps taken would be vastly different.

 

[ReefBeta]

I can see two situations where one protocol should be used over the other:
1. Hybrid TTM for any copper sensitive or finicky eaters.
2. Current QT Protocol when working with many fish at once as TTM doesn't scale well (mostly do to costs)

With regard to cost, I think it's a wash based on how I have set them up.
Current QT Protocol: 20gal tank, HOB filter, heater, filter media, Ammonia Tester, Copper Tester, Copper, General Cure, etc...
Hybrid TTM: 2 x 5gal tanks, 2 HOB filters, 2 heaters, filter media, Ammonia Tester, General Cure, Hydrogen Peroxide, etc...

With regard to more "work", Hybrid TTM Protocol is less work in my opinion. Cleaning out small tanks every 3 days for 13 days for Hybrid TTM vs monitoring Ammonia and Copper and making adjustments and then removing Copper and also maintaing a tank for Current QT Protocol for 62 days.

Lastly, but most importantly which protocol is "prone to more errors", because this is what usually kills fish. In my opinion TTM is the clear winner. You don't have to worry about the fish's Copper tolerance, you can't overdose or underdose Copper, and you don't really have to worry about Ammonia or maintaining a tank for an extended period. Transfer stress to fish is a concern...but I'm not sure it's more or less stressful than Copper.

Given these factors, I almost always use a variation of TTM.

I think I will be opting for hybrid TTM in the future. It can be applied to more fish, especially the ones I'm most interested in are those sensitive to copper, like wrasse, mandarin, pipefish, etc. It took a lot less time is a huge plus too. Also It's to add in additional treatment like PZ or GC.

IIUC, TTM won't need a filter, cause it will got bleached every 3 days anyway. An air stone for oxygenation and circulation will be enough. Air stone is can be found cheap enough to use it as disposable. So all it need is tank, heater, air stone, and some PVC.

 

[ExoS]

It was my understanding that the ttm with peroxide was experimental. In that sense the question is apples to oranges. Peroxide may prove out but for now the comparison of proven methods would be traditional versus ttm with copper. For that that scenario I don’t think the winner is as clear

Also don’t forget that an important part of quarantine is observation so buckets really hinder that aspect of it. Not a big deal as you can get 5 gallon aquariums cheap but it’s something to consider.

Personally I am too new to have any valid opinion on this. I am doing the one tank quarantine for my fish right now and it’s pretty easy. All the transfers sound like a lot of work to me.

 

[arking_mark]

It was my understanding that the ttm with peroxide was experimental. In that sense the question is apples to oranges. Peroxide may prove out but for now the comparison of proven methods would be traditional versus ttm with copper. For that that scenario I don’t think the winner is as clear

Also don’t forget that an important part of quarantine is observation so buckets really hinder that aspect of it. Not a big deal as you can get 5 gallon aquariums cheap but it’s something to consider.

Personally I am too new to have any valid opinion on this. I am doing the one tank quarantine for my fish right now and it’s pretty easy. All the transfers sound like a lot of work to me.

This is a good point, however, if a fish has velvet it will show up quickly. It's a quicker killer. I'd expect to see it during TTM.

I also keep a small observation tank that I use to observe fish I TTM before finally adding to tank.

Additionally, I really only TTM fish I can't get from the QT professions and fish I get from local reefers.