Cyano/nuisance algae with 0 Phosphate/Nitrate

[Crashjack]

Tank has been running for around 6 months, and I've got a cyano and/or other nuisance algae problem (pics below). Knowing this tank is fairly new, I've somewhat ignored phosphates/nitrates. I had a hair algae breakout a few months ago and tested then. I got 0 ppm phosphates on an API test, and 0 ppm nitrates with a Nyos test kit. I figured my API kit wasn't very accurate and that my nutrients were just being taken up as soon as they were released. My LMB took care of the hair algae, and I've added a few more fish since then. Over the last several weeks, I started getting cyano or some kind of nuisance algae on the sand but not the rocks. It has continually gotten worse, and I figured my nitrates and phosphates were getting too high. I tested and to my surprise, my phosphates measured .006 ppm (2 ppb) with my Hannah ULR. I ran an API test as well, and it showed 0 ppm phosphates. I ran a Nyos nitrate test and also got 0 ppm. It was so "zero" that I moved the vials to look at in different lighting and got the control and test samples mixed up and could never figure out which was which because the results looked exactly the same. Also, my chaeto hasn't grown in quite some time, which seems to support these low test results.

I got some Chemiclean and planned to run that but also need to get my nitrates and phosphates up a little... I guess. My experience has always been fighting to get nutrients down so I'm in uncharted waters. I've read about using a microscope to identify what the problem is, but I want to start with a little trial and error troubleshooting first since I already know my phosphates and nitrates are so low. Also regarding Chemiclean, I know you are supposed to increase aeration, but my tank is 6'x2'x19" (screen top) with two Maxspect Gyre XF250 pumps and a Trigger 39 sump (40 gal) with a Lifereef skimmer w/ a Mag 1200 pump. I keep reading "add an airstone" but that seems as pointless as hunting grizzly bears with a BB gun. Other than lowering the water level in my skimmer to prevent overflowing, do I really need to worry about aeration? Regarding increasing nitrates/phosphates, I'm going to increase feeding some, but this isn't likely going to fix as I can only feed my low bioload so much. What's the easiest way to increase nitrates/phosphates?

 

[Ocelaris]

How's flow and your sand cleaning habits? It could be dinos if it's not like a mucus covering.

When you do chemiclean, basically just make the skimmer collect nothing and you'll have plenty of air exchange. I open my gate valve on the skimmer so that it doesn't overflow and that puts micro bubbles in the tank. After about three days I do carbon and slowly ramp the skimmer collection up.

It's really an easy fix, just watch the skimmer.

 

[Crashjack]

How's flow and your sand cleaning habits? It could be dinos if it's not like a mucus covering.

Flow is good with the two Gyre pumps. Initially, sand was blowing around in some areas so I added crushed coral to those areas. I program my Gyres instead of using one of the built-in modes. A few days ago, I upped the flow in some of the stages I run but it’s a balancing act trying to keep from blowing a lot of sand around.

Not sure about mucous, but the problem looks like blobs. I had cyano when I was in the hobby years ago, but that problem looked like sheets or mats that could be several inches in diameter. This looks a little similar... maybe like you put those sheets in a blender then poured on the sand.

 

[IonicBond]

Best case scenario could be diatom bloom from silicates, due to new rocks/plastics/frag plugs etc. which would burn itself out, or you can use PhosGuard.

It's hard to distinguish if it's diatoms with microbubbles in the tank or dino's.

 

[Crashjack]

Forgot to answer sand cleaning question... I do bi-weekly water changes and have cleaned sand the last two or three water changes.

Regarding diatoms, I’ve always assumed the brown powdery looking stuff to be diatoms, and I do have some on the glass. This stuff on the sand has more structure to it than that. If you stir it, you might see flakes but not powder.

 

[Andnosobabin]

Not sure about how to raise your nutes in your system, but one would imagine that what ever nutrient uptake system your using is working too well. You said you have chaeto in your fuge? Maybe you can turn back your lighting cycle on your fuge till they come up and dial it in from there. Good luck!

 

[Ocelaris]

Forgot to answer sand cleaning question... I do bi-weekly water changes and have cleaned sand the last two or three water changes.

Regarding diatoms, I’ve always assumed the brown powdery looking stuff to be diatoms, and I do have some on the glass. This stuff on the sand has more structure to it than that. If you stir it, you might see flakes but not powder.

My personal philosophy is that some diatoms/cyano is unavoidable, but higher frequency of water changes for a short time and a big dose of nice brs rox carbon changed every few days helps. The chemiclean is useful when the cyano is getting too strong and is taking over, but if it's just diatoms, I usually step up the cleaning routine a bit.

One thing that most people don't mention with chemiclean is that it will make a diatom bloom when you there is no competition for the nutrients, so expect a few days of smothering diatoms afterwards.

 

[guttysreef]

You best bet it do keep up on water changes. There is phosphates in tap water. Do running an ordi system works wonders. Your watchman (if I am correct ) will sift the sand clean. You can also cut back a little of feeding if he eats the food. This is a problem with most reef tanks. But everything else seem good. At my work I test out salt water tanks with API test kits and they are accurate if done right. I recommend Red Sea test kits. Or henna clickers.

 

[Crashjack]

You best bet it do keep up on water changes. There is phosphates in tap water. Do running an ordi system works wonders. Your watchman (if I am correct ) will sift the sand clean. You can also cut back a little of feeding if he eats the food. This is a problem with most reef tanks.

I use RO/DI water with incoming TDS of 2 (after I flush the unit) and outgoing TDS of 0. My issue doesn't appear to be nitrates/phosphates too high, but nitrates/phosphates too low.

One thing that most people don't mention with chemiclean is that it will make a diatom bloom when you there is no competition for the nutrients, so expect a few days of smothering diatoms afterwards.

I went ahead and added Chemiclean today. Hopefully, the chaeto will take-up the additional nutrients.

Regarding increasing nitrates and phosphates, is there a product one can manually dose to raise nitrates and phosphates?

 

[Ocelaris]

You can dose potassium nitrate for nitrates, but less people dose phosphates, but I've heard of people using the seachem phosphate additive for planted tanks. But usually just increasing feeding will suffice for phosphates. I have dosed nitrates and once the levels were up I've only had to feed to keep them there.

Hang in for a while ride with chemiclean, it may get worse after the cyano is gone, but don't worry about it and just keep up the maintenance as the dying cyano releases nutrients and there's an opening for dinos to take over for a little while afterwards.

 

[Crashjack]

An update... went through the Chemiclean treatment and vacuumed the rock with my 20% water change 48 hours later. After that, there was a big difference. However, a lot of this stuff is back. I really didn't see a lot of difference during treatment and though there was likely some cyano, I don't think that was the bulk of the problem. I also got some Flourish Nitrogen and Phosphorous and dosed to where I got around 4 ppm nitrate and .046 ppm phosphate. It has only been a few days and my chaeto has grown more in that few days than it grew in 2+ months. I believe my corals look a little better, especially my zoas, but that might be a little placebo effect. I'll know more after a couple of weeks.

Like I said, the problem is back and being handicapped with this size of tank, I can't perform multiple water changes. I have a guy that comes every two weeks to do water changes, but that is pretty much all I can do maybe other than a few gallons out of probably 130 gallons actual water volume. Phosguard or pads don't make sense to me as the nutrients have been non-existent, and I'm seeing positive changes in a very short time since adding nutrients. Maybe growth/removal of chaeto will help over time? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Sallstrom]

I would try to keep the nutrient levels were you got them after adding NO3 and PO4. Sound like good numbers to me. And then just wait IMO every change might increase the risk for cyano to appear.

/ David

 

[Crashjack]

Wanted to bring this back up as I'm not out of the woods. I'm pretty sure my problem is dinos. They mostly go away at night. I also believe the algae is toxic as one of my yellow watchman gobies exhibited odd behavior in that he would go to the opposite side of the tank and swim high in the water column attacking the glass and then sort of laying behind the gyre pump. He would do this for half a day to a day-and-a-half and then go back to his territory and act normal. I could find no signs of parasites on that or any fish, and all fish were quarantined with medication prior to adding. This behavior went on and off for weeks and after the last episode, he disappeared... presumed dead. The gobies sift sand so I figure they are more affected as the other fish seem fine. My other YWG has now exhibited this behavior once, but only for a few hours. Also, my BTA has shrunken tentacles though its color remains good. My gorgonians have been overrun and won't make it. Most other corals aren't looking great but not looking terrible, either.

After the Chemiclean treatment, I also tried a day without T5s (LEDs only), two days with no lights, and then a day with LEDs only again. Like the Chemiclean, it made a difference at first but it all came back. After all that (and after I had dosed phosphate and nitrate a few times), my phosphates shot up to around .5 ppm, while nitrates stayed at around 8 ppm. Oddly, dosing only got my phosphates to .046 ppm and Nitrate to around 2 ppm, but then they both shot up after I stopped running the lights. I added Phosguard to get phosphates down, and I'm now a little over .1 ppm (I'll check again tomorrow). Once I started bringing phosphates down, my chaeto stopped growing like it was. I'm looking for a course of action and would purchase a microscope, but I can't find any treatment protocols based on the type of dino in the behemoth Dinos sticky... I'm sure it is there, I just can't find it. I realize there are a million treatments, but I've jumped on the higher nutrients while running GAC bandwagon. I'm just not sure what else if anything I should do.

 

[cracker]

I had /have the same issues. No Po4 no No3. I dose both. Just enough Po4 to shw up on a red sea kit No3 around 2. My corals are looking better,the brown stuff is fading. If the Chemiclean doesn't trill Ya try this. I boosted up my CUC also. Good luck !

 

[Phammerl]

Any update to your problems?

 

[Crashjack]

Dinos are now gone after months of dosing nitrate/phosphate and removing dinos during water changes, and then finally adding a UV sterilizer. With all the dosing and the elimination of the dinos, nutrients spiked, and I had the richest, fullest, prettiest GHA you’ve ever seen. I spent 6 weeks or so manually removing GHA and allowing nutrients to go back down. The GHA was about all gone, but my corals weren’t looking good and my chaeto wasn’t growing, so I tested and confirmed I was back at 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate. I started dosing nitrate/phosphate again but am dosing a lot less than what I was dosing with the dinos. Only a little GHA has come back, but I’m getting a lot of cyano and diatoms on the sand. However, corals are looking better and chaeto is growing.

After this whole ordeal, I can tell when my nutrients get too low just by watching my corals and chaeto. I’m still not registering any significant nitrate/phosphate because the nutrients are being used right away. My plan is to significantly increase my CUC and slowly increase dosing amounts until I start measuring > 0 nitrate/phosphate, or my corals look like I want them to.

 

[GTAReefTank]

I have exact issue. 0 phosphate, low nitrate.
Same stuff as the OPs. Looks purplish but breaks up and floats if stirred from the sand bed. I also have chaeto in the sump.
I’ll cut my slimmer to run 12 hours at night only and stop using filter socks to see how that helps. I already have UV

 

[Undertaker]

take some of the "cyano" and put it in some vinegar if it is truly cyano it will turn the vinegar pink

 

[Kyl]

I'm starting to have less faith in new systems + chaeto, undetectable nutrients is just a myriad of continuous issues and it takes a long time to recover itself. Constantly dosing NO3 or PO4 to detectable only to have it removed via macro again, rinse repeat all while any SPS in the tank gets angry and the revolving door of cyano / dino takes place.

 

[goodefx]

I'm starting to have less faith in new systems + chaeto, undetectable nutrients is just a myriad of continuous issues and it takes a long time to recover itself. Constantly dosing NO3 or PO4 to detectable only to have it removed via macro again, rinse repeat all while any SPS in the tank gets angry and the revolving door of cyano / dino takes place.

Any follow up? Been a couple months and I'm having the same issue!