Cycling a Dry Rock Bare Bottom Tank

[jpmazzone]

I am day thirty into a fishless cycle of a bare bottom tank. The tank is an IM AIO Lagoon 50. On day one, I dosed Brightwell Aquatics bacteria starter and dosed ammonia. After day 10, ammonia tested 0 ppm with both a Hanna Checker and API test kit. Nitrite testing, with and API test, has been testing 2.0 PPM for the past two weeks.

The rock is Marco rock and there is about 30 lbs. No sand. Three days ago I added 8 lbs of rubble from Tampa Bay Salt Water. There was no smell to the rocks at all and there was no ammonia spike indicating an insignificant amount of die off.

Parameters are consistent at:
Temp = 78 F
SG = 1.025 (maintained with ATO)
Ammonia = 0 PPM
Nitrite = 2.0 PPM

This is the first time I've done a fishless cycle and a bare bottom tank. Is the Nitrite phase of the cycle typically this long or have I stalled my cycle? I'm in no rush to accelerate the cycle but, I would appreciate any advice if you think I have stalled out and need to get back on track.

 

[Fish Fan]

How high did the ammonia get initially? If it was up to about 2.0 ppm and is now zero (or very near zero), you're cycled. Especially with the addition of the TBS rock rubble, you should be good to slowly add some hardy livestock.

You can safely ignore nitrite altogether, it's non-toxic in saltwater tanks

Good luck!

 

[Science/G]

A bare bottom, dry rock cycle does take a while. You should be just about ready to go. Stock slowly and monitor parameters.

 

[jpmazzone]

How high did the ammonia get initially? If it was up to about 2.0 ppm and is now zero (or very near zero), you're cycled. Especially with the addition of the TBS rock rubble, you should be good to slowly add some hardy livestock.

You can safely ignore nitrite altogether, it's non-toxic in saltwater tanks

Good luck!

It was actually over 2.0 and has been testing Zero every day for about two weeks.

 

[Fish Fan]

It was actually over 2.0 and has been testing Zero every day for about two weeks.

Then you're in good shape, there's no need to wait for the nitrite to come down

 

[exnisstech]

Where are nitrates at? Nitrate is all I test for when cycling. Once I see nitrates I slowly move forward. Many like to see ammonia rise and fall which is perfectly fine and probably best for someone new but I don't even have an ammonia or nitrite test kit. I've not had any problems doing it this way as long as live stock is added slowly once nitrates are present.

 

[jpmazzone]

Then you're in good shape, there's no need to wait for the nitrite to come down

Thank you for this. I had no idea that the elevated nitrite was safe for marine fish.

 

[jpmazzone]

Where are nitrates at? Nitrate is all I test for when cycling. Once I see nitrates I slowly move forward. Many like to see ammonia rise and fall which is perfectly fine and probably best for someone new but I don't even have an ammonia or nitrite test kit. I've not had any problems doing it this way as long as live stock is added slowly once nitrates are present.

Thanks for the note. I have not yet begin to test for nitrate yet. I will start that now but I suspect it will be next to nothing as I have zero livestock.

 

[Fish Fan]

Thank you for this. I had no idea that the elevated nitrite was safe for marine fish.

100%, and don't believe me, believe those much smarter than me, including RHF:
https://www.reef2reef.com/posts/4805029/

 

[exnisstech]

Thanks for the note. I have not yet begin to test for nitrate yet. I will start that now but I suspect it will be next to nothing as I have zero livestock.

You don't have to have livestock. Nitrates will start to show up as the ammonia you dosed is processed.

 

[Fish Fan]

Thanks for the note. I have not yet begin to test for nitrate yet. I will start that now but I suspect it will be next to nothing as I have zero livestock.

Not quite

The advice provided above is from a very, very successful reefer, and it works for him and I respect that, and I'm not even qualified to mix his water change water

But I'll point out that nitrite in the water at this time does cause nitrate to read falsely high. For that reason, you don't really know what your nitrate is until all the nitrite has zeroed out. So, though you may be reading something for nitrate, it could just be nitrite at this point.

Take a look at this post from Randy Holmes-Farley recently. I think he is exactly right here - if you could buy only one test kit to cycle your tank, get ammonia because it's the *best* indicator of when a tank is cycled:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...ing-ammonia-and-nitrate.1154639/post-14289747
Short story, you should absolutely expect to see nitrate even without livestock. All the ammonia you've added will eventually be converted to nitrate, and in the meantime any nitrite you have will register as nitrate, so typically you can expect over inflated levels of nitrate at this point.

 

[jpmazzone]

Thanks for the note. I have not yet begin to test for nitrate yet. I will start that now but I suspect it will be next to nothing as I have zero livestock.

Not quite

The advice provided above is from a very, very successful reefer, and it works for him and I respect that, and I'm not even qualified to mix his water change water

But I'll point out that nitrite in the water at this time does cause nitrate to read falsely high. For that reason, you don't really know what your nitrate is until all the nitrite has zeroed out. So, though you may be reading something for nitrate, it could just be nitrite at this point.

Take a look at this post from Randy Holmes-Farley recently. I think he is exactly right here - if you could buy only one test kit to cycle your tank, get ammonia because it's the *best* indicator of when a tank is cycled:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...ing-ammonia-and-nitrate.1154639/post-14289747
Short story, you should absolutely expect to see nitrate even without livestock. All the ammonia you've added will eventually be converted to nitrate, and in the meantime any nitrite you have will register as nitrate, so typically you can expect over inflated levels of nitrate at this point.

Thank you. Great points.

 

[exnisstech]

The advice provided above is from a very, very successful reefer, and it works for him and I respect that, and I'm not even qualified to mix his water change water

While I don't believe this even close to being true I appreciate the kind words.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

I believe if your test kits for both No3 and No2 are in ppm. To get the % of Nitrite in a Nitrate test, divide No2 over No3 and multiply by 100. Don't quote me, but I kinda remember something like that. Even if that calculation isn't that accurate, you are just trying to prove Nitrates, which would confirm your cycle is working.

 

[Dan_P]

I believe if your test kits for both No3 and No2 are in ppm. To get the % of Nitrite in a Nitrate test, divide No2 over No3 and multiply by 100. Don't quote me, but I kinda remember something like that. Even if that calculation isn't that accurate, you are just trying to prove Nitrates, which would confirm your cycle is working.

Not true.

Unless you first destroy the nitrite, the nitrate test result is worthless.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Not true.

Unless you first destroy the nitrite, the nitrate test result is worthless.

That's why I said don't quote me... But... If you are using two tests and the Nitrate test is higher than your nitrite test. And you are assuming your nitrate test is including nitrites, can't one conclude you have Nitrates also?
Not trying to challenge, asking a serious question.

 

[Fish Fan]

That's why I said don't quote me... But... If you are using two tests and the Nitrate test is higher than your nitrite test. And you are assuming your nitrate test is including nitrites, can't one conclude you have Nitrates also?
Not trying to challenge, asking a serious question.

This is an extremely valid question I'm wondering too. Makes sense on face value, right? And when both test kits report the same units.

 

[Dan_P]

That's why I said don't quote me... But... If you are using two tests and the Nitrate test is higher than your nitrite test. And you are assuming your nitrate test is including nitrites, can't one conclude you have Nitrates also?
Not trying to challenge, asking a serious question.

No.

The nitrate tests works by converting nitrate to nitrite and measures the amount of nitrite. It actually converts only a fraction of the nitrate which means each brand of nitrate test is affected by nitrite contamination differently. It might be the case where small amounts of nitrite results in a high nitrate measurement even in the absence of nitrate.

 

[jpmazzone]

Not sure if anyone is following this but, if they are and wanted to see where this ended up, here it is. After an additional 1.5 weeks, nitrite crashed to 0 ppm. Very little detectable nitrate but started a weekly water change regiment of 5 gallons (10%). I also does 4 jars of Galaxy copepods from Algae Barn and feed 30 mls lof live phytoplankton a day. I will eventually taper that off. I have a pair of clownfish in and will allow the tank to mature another two months before adding any coral. Maybe I'll do a build thread if I feel ambitious!

 

[Gumbies R Us]

Not sure if anyone is following this but, if they are and wanted to see where this ended up, here it is. After an additional 1.5 weeks, nitrite crashed to 0 ppm. Very little detectable nitrate but started a weekly water change regiment of 5 gallons (10%). I also does 4 jars of Galaxy copepods from Algae Barn and feed 30 mls lof live phytoplankton a day. I will eventually taper that off. I have a pair of clownfish in and will allow the tank to mature another two months before adding any coral. Maybe I'll do a build thread if I feel ambitious!

You should do a buildthread!