Cycling Question

[lterna]

So I am currently cycling my first tank and would like some advice. I went with Dr Tims and have been using their ammonia solution for a fishless cycle. Been dosing up to 2ppm of ammonia and now it seems the tank is handling it, with it dropping close to 0 within 24 hours of dosing. I think I am in the middle of the Nitrite spike with it sitting at 5ppm for a couple days now. Nitrate has been around 20ppm for the last 4 days. ph is a consistent 8.0-8.2.

Should i continue dosing the ammonia daily? Some people say to get it up to 4ppm and see what the tank does with it in 24 hrs. I am waiting for that magical day that everyone says happens when the Nitrite numbers plummet rapidly. But I also know that super high Nitrite can cause the cycle to delay which I don't want. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[brandon429]

once is enough. extra isnt harmful, its just extra nitrate/algae feed eventually.

the one part left out above, the critical deciding and only deciding factor regarding your cycles progress, is how many days has it been running with these dosers in the tank

30 days?

If your system has been in this above condition for 20 days or more then its cycled, change out all your water if possible (to start fresh, low nitrate, ripe for feeding)

if not, wait till day 20 or anywhere in between 20-30 doesnt matter and change out the water, its cycled. duration of time underwater is the first deciding factor in a cycle, we dont have to reference test kits at all to cycle a tank. that yours is showing ammonia compliance is all it takes to close a cycle but we want a few weeks for plenty of buildup time. its likely done in the first week after adding bottle bac.

 

[14 foot reef]

I would Stop dosing, let nitrites go to Zero, then you could follow the above advise of the 100% water change. Nitrites at Zero I bellieve is important before considering this tank cycled.

 

[lterna]

once is enough. extra isnt harmful, its just extra nitrate/algae feed eventually.

the one part left out above, the critical deciding and only deciding factor regarding your cycles progress, is how many days has it been running with these dosers in the tank

30 days?

If your system has been in this above condition for 20 days or more then its cycled, change out all your water if possible (to start fresh, low nitrate, ripe for feeding)

if not, wait till day 20 or anywhere in between 20-30 doesnt matter and change out the water, its cycled. duration of time underwater is the first deciding factor in a cycle, we dont have to reference test kits at all to cycle a tank. that yours is showing ammonia compliance is all it takes to close a cycle but we want a few weeks for plenty of buildup time. its likely done in the first week after adding bottle bac.

today is day 15 of the cycle. Thanks for the advice because I know it can take much much longer for a tank to actually cycle. I will keep an eye on nitrites and wait for them to start dropping

 

[brandon429]

hey check out just the first post here, it'll show another neat trick on testless technique:

The microbiology of reef tank cycling.

You can skip your cycle. Ive been reefing online for twenty years and have never waited one second for a tank to cycle, because I buy rocks that are already cycled and move them home. Here's two: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/octo-high-end-sps-skip-cycle-build.713256/...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[lterna]

hey check out just the first post here, it'll show another neat trick on testless technique:

The microbiology of reef tank cycling.

You can skip your cycle. Ive been reefing online for twenty years and have never waited one second for a tank to cycle, because I buy rocks that are already cycled and move them home. Here's two: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/octo-high-end-sps-skip-cycle-build.713256/...

www.reef2reef.com

Ok really cool thread. I can sit back and let the tank reach the 30 day mark while I make water. Thanks for the help!

 

[Seadoc]

I agree with not dosing anymore ammonia and letting nitrites go down. How much total ammonia did you dose from the beggining of the process? Highly elevated nitrites can stall the cycle process. Seems to me you are in the middle of it waiting for the Nitrite --> Nitrate conversion to occur. That conversion is slower thant the one from Ammonia --> Nitrite.

You can wait or consider a water change if your Nitrites are above 5ppm (per Dr. Tim's instructions). If your test does not measure above 5ppm, you could dilute the sample with RODI water by an "X" factor and multiplying the result by it.....or.....you could just assume that your results are above 5ppm and just do the water change. If your test kit has the capacity of measuring above 5ppm ignore my rambling in this paragraph.

Welcome to R2R!!!

 

[King Turkey]

I would add a fish at this point and just keep an eye on the numbers.

 

[brandon429]

It wouldn't die if he did, bottle bac is for skip cycling / breaking the common rule

we're doing cycles right now in new forum with dry rock, two days in, bottle bac, and two healthy clownfish~

Even though it's day fifteen here, the fish would live because ammonia would be handled and nitrite isn't toxic at any stage of cycling whether nitrite converting bacteria exist or not. Only ammonia has to be controlled to begin, essentially. Fish disease protocol and tank prep needs to be factored ideally, that usually adds more wait time past end of cycle

The 30 days is just to handle every persons variation, whether their bottle bac was good or not etc or whether they dosed 4x the typical ammonia due to testers misreading.

 

[lterna]

I agree with not dosing anymore ammonia and letting nitrites go down. How much total ammonia did you dose from the beggining of the process? Highly elevated nitrites can stall the cycle process. Seems to me you are in the middle of it waiting for the Nitrite --> Nitrate conversion to occur. That conversion is slower thant the one from Ammonia --> Nitrite.

You can wait or consider a water change if your Nitrites are above 5ppm (per Dr. Tim's instructions). If your test does not measure above 5ppm, you could dilute the sample with RODI water by an "X" factor and multiplying the result by it.....or.....you could just assume that your results are above 5ppm and just do the water change. If your test kit has the capacity of measuring above 5ppm ignore my rambling in this paragraph.

Welcome to R2R!!!

My initial dose of ammonia was 4 drops per gallon per the directions of Dr Tims ammonia bottle. It took a few days for that to process, and I have dosed it back up to 2.0 ppm 5 times since then. I didn't redose yesterday after reading your reply. Ammonia is now reading .25. I tested last night and while the Nitrites were still high, I was finally getting an increase in Nitrate (or so I think based on the test kit). Based on some other threads I read, it seems to me that Nitrite was supposed to drop very rapidly, however my test kit shows this process happening gradually (again could be a test error). You think a water change to get the Nitrite levels down a bit is the way to go? I was leaning towards waiting a day or two to see if it will come down naturally.

 

[King Turkey]

Water change wont hurt the bacteria is in the glass sand and rock. Worst that could happen is it will delay the cycle a little but I have never ran into that problem. I would wc half test water than dose for bacteria.

 

[Seadoc]

You can wait and see what happens in a couple of days with your parameters or do a wc. If your nitrites do not start going down soon, I would definitely do a wc.

 

[lterna]

Tested this morning and ammonia was at 0ppm. Nitrites are still high, but I finally saw a huge spike in Nitrates. 160ppm is the highest my test kit goes for Nitrate, and that's what it is reading at. I will probably wait another 24 hours and test again to see if the Nitrites come down as the Nitrates continue to spike. I'm sure Nitrites must have been off the charts. If they are still 5.0ppm, I'll do a wc.

 

[King Turkey]

nice sound like it is starting to rely cycle now.

 

[Seadoc]

Tested this morning and ammonia was at 0ppm. Nitrites are still high, but I finally saw a huge spike in Nitrates. 160ppm is the highest my test kit goes for Nitrate, and that's what it is reading at. I will probably wait another 24 hours and test again to see if the Nitrites come down as the Nitrates continue to spike. I'm sure Nitrites must have been off the charts. If they are still 5.0ppm, I'll do a wc.

Sounds great. You will have to do a wc regardless to reduce those nitrates too. I would measure again after the wc.

 

[lterna]

Ok so Nitrites dropped from 5.0 to 0 over night. Ammonia 0 and Nitrates sky high. WC then add some life to the tank?

 

[Seadoc]

I would consider the tank cycled at this point. If you are going to add life, consider adding it slowly and allowing the system to adjust. Check your parameters daily in the beginning and don't forget to also check the non-cycle related parameters: Alk-Ca-Mg

 

[lterna]

I would consider the tank cycled at this point. If you are going to add life, consider adding it slowly and allowing the system to adjust. Check your parameters daily in the beginning and don't forget to also check the non-cycle related parameters: Alk-Ca-Mg

I was going to start with two clownfish after I do the water change. Probably won't be adding any other fish for a month or so. Might add a zoanthid too, or should I wait on that as well?

 

[lterna]

performed a 20 gallon water change (90 gallon tank) and added 2 fancy ocellaris clowns last night.

they are eating and seem playful and happy.

tested again today and readings were: ammonia-0, nitrite-0, and nitrate 40ppm. I understand that this nitrate reading is too high and am currently preparing another 20 gallon water change to try to get it to 5-10ppm or lower. I will keep monitoring daily. Just wanted to say thank you all for the help and advice. A person new to the hobby like myself greatly appreciates it!