Cycling with fish, high nitrates please help

[Patches&Penny]

I have a 13.5 gallon sea evo
10 pounds of live rock
Crushed coral substrate

My tank is 7 days old , I have used bacteria since day 1 , I added 2 clownfish on day 5

7th day test results are as follows:
7.8 ph
0.50 ammonia
2.0 nitrite
40ppm nitrate

I suspect my ammonia is due to to much feeding so i'm going to cut back on the feedings .

What should I do about the nitrates ? Do I do a water change or just let the cycle play out ?

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Evening,

First question I would ask is there any other tank or fish store that could hold the clowns until you are done with the cycle? The Nitrate is not an issue. The ammonia is.

Can you give a little more info about how you are cycling

 

[andrewey]

What bacteria did you use and did you test your ammonia before adding the fish to confirm the tank could process ammonia in under 24 hours? I suspect the ammonia is not due to the feedings, so much as a new tank that may not have have enough biological filtration. Can you have a LFS hold your fish tomorrow until your tank is ready for them?

 

[LegendaryCG]

Ammonia is really bad for your fish. I’d do a big water change and add some Prime to the tank to reduce it as much as possible.

 

[andrewey]

In addition to what everyone else has pointed out, I would also point out that while it's possible to cycle a tank with live fish (which is ostensibly what you are doing), the amount of ammonia 2 clownfish could produce in a 13 gallon tank could get to lethal levels rather quickly. I would do the water change (matching temperature and ph), add some prime, and rehome first thing tomorrow until your tank is ready.

 

[BlazinNano]

Evening,

First question I would ask is there any other tank or fish store that could hold the clowns until you are done with the cycle? The Nitrate is not an issue. The ammonia is.

Can you give a little more info about how you are cycling

Yes see if the store will hold them for you. Do a water change. The ammonia is not from the food.

 

[tehmadreefer]

Back in the day we cycled tanks with fish, nowadays it isn’t really the pc way to do it, as it does cause harm to the fish.

 

[andrewey]

@tehmadreefer - you're right that we used to use damsels or other hardy fish to cycle our tanks when I first started the hobby. The big difference here, beyond trying to be kind to our pets, is the fact very few, if anyone, was cycling a NANO tank with live fish...

 

[Patches&Penny]

I cannot relocate the fish, covid 19 has my local fish store doing curb side pickups so no luck storing the fish .

I have 10 pounds of live rock in the tank
My substrate is crushed coral
I have been using aqua vitro seed bacteria every day since day one . I have prime aswell

Looking to finish my cycle with the fish .

Please dont tear me apart , I read multiple things online and asked many questions in groups and I got nothing but mixed advice , some people told me to get fish to cycle , others told me to use decaying shrimp , this is my first salt water setup and I am aware things started abit sloppy . However that doesnt change the fact that I have no choice but to finish cycle with the fish

 

[andrewey]

If you cannot rehome the fish, I would do water changes around the clock and dose prime regularly. I would make sure the tank has enough aeration and test for ammonia daily.

I would also call your local fish store. Even if they're doing curbside pickup, if they'll willing to hold the fish for you, I don't see why you can't pass them the fish in a bag through the window. I know you said you have no choice, but you might be surprised if you give them a call.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

No tearing apart, here to help and you’ll be fine ;Shamefullyembarrased

Have you been testing ammonia and nitrite daily? just wondering where we may be in the cycle.
like Andrew mentioned a small water change matched as he said would be good, dosed with prime. The clowns should be hardy enough to survive the cycle.

Like reefer mentioned the ammonia burns gills so we stopped cycling with fish and found othervways

edit, my thought is only dose the prime 1 time tonight with the change. we should retest in am. with nitrate showing I am hoping the cycle will kick in

 

[tehmadreefer]

Well if there is absolutely no way to return then ya, gonna have to leave em in and cycle that way, you may lose the fish. Let the tank cycle and hope for the best.

You mention groups, if It is fb groups than ya stay far away from those, they will give the worst advice as you are now seeing firsthand.

 

[Patches&Penny]

How much water should I be changing ? And how often

I will test daily for ammonia

Also how often should I be feeding and how much during cycle

 

[Mastiffsrule]

I would do 20% and dose prime. Follow the bottle instructions to neutralize ammonia. The water should match temp and salinity right on. I would add it slowly into the tank over a few minutes.

Only 1 change and prime tonight. The prime will bind ammonia for 24 hours. We don’t want to bind it longer since you need it to finish the cycle. We just want to give the clowns some relief for tonight. Test in the am. Hope is nitrite is gone tomorrow . If so, we can watch ammonia close to see if it rises. Continue to dose bacteria as instructed on bottles

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Then, once your tank is cycled and everyone is happy you can show us pictures and we can say

#WelcometoR2R

 

[Tamberav]

I cannot relocate the fish, covid 19 has my local fish store doing curb side pickups so no luck storing the fish .

I have 10 pounds of live rock in the tank
My substrate is crushed coral
I have been using aqua vitro seed bacteria every day since day one . I have prime aswell

Looking to finish my cycle with the fish .

Please dont tear me apart , I read multiple things online and asked many questions in groups and I got nothing but mixed advice , some people told me to get fish to cycle , others told me to use decaying shrimp , this is my first salt water setup and I am aware things started abit sloppy . However that doesnt change the fact that I have no choice but to finish cycle with the fish

Do daily water changes to keep ammonia low. The tank will still cycle and they will keep pooing. Just keep it under control.

Personally I would change 50 percent as you have 0.5 ammonia so changing 50 percent should bring it to 0.25.

I don't cycle with fish because it's more work than it is worth and a waste of salt and RODI. It's just less work to use other methods. Can't go back in time though.

 

[brandon429]

this tank never had free ammonia this whole time.


forum posters will accept your non seneye ammonia data as 100% fact unquestionable close the book cannot be any other way.



post pics for proof

you did a legit live rock transfer cycle/skip cycle. when I take my 14 yr old nano apart to clean it, and set the rocks on the counter for half an hour as I clean sand, then reassemble it all with new water, thats exactly the steps you took but from lfs-home and your move was probably nicer as it allowed live rocks to be wet, mine darn near dry out (seemingly) but the truth is moving live rocks doesnt kill bacteria, and neither does my deep cleans which are the exact same assembly steps.

if you label a post as a stalled cycle, forums will take that reinforcement. You listed feeding + fish + no death, this reef was cycled the day you brought it home

waiting 50 days more wont help it get better; there's nothing wrong with it.

that you tested and found free ammonia, with a kit known to misread, is no alarm.

Post pics of your reef, we'll link to a 30 page thread on live rock skip cycles. you didnt harm fish, at all, or they'd be dead. You did cycling 2020 instead of cycling 1976.

ps
if you are fiber internet vs dialup, I will not fault you for not waiting 50 mins to download one song. you're allowed to speed up your computing here too along with cycling.


*have you ever wondered how they get 400 reefs at MACNA marine convention to all be ready on the start date, no delays, but on forum posts you've broken a law? I haven't wondered that.

a true ammonia noncontrol event kills your whole reef by next day. it isn't inconsequential. reefs are that hungry to eat up raw ammonia; none is left over outside of thousandths ppm conversion rate. post pics. if fish are not huddled at the top barely breathing in cloudy smelly water, then you did what 400 reefs at MACNA do


B

 

[Patches&Penny]

Today I did a top up using fresh distilled water treated with prime

Then i did a 10% water change dosed with prime and bacteria .

My circulation fan also came in the mail today so I added that .

I waited an hour before doing an ammonia test.

This is my result .

 

[brandon429]

Zero ammonia tank


Not factoring the test read in the call. Added to microbiology of cycling thread

 

[brandon429]

one of our recent live rock transfer thread was much darker for weeks longer, 8 ppm. its in our MBC thread as one of the focus studies. multiple confounds exist to make api read darker than what the real sample would measure, which is .00x thousandths ppm free ammonia if ran on a seneye.

consider this: in veterinary medicine, and in human medicine (across the board when it comes to respiration waste clearance requirements) if an animal is in kidney distress or loss, it presents with symptoms.

nobody happily strolls around six days after total kidney cessation, most are dead. the rest are laid up

the level of intervention is 10/10 serious not 7/10

we want to exempt reef tanks from showing the same symptoms of ammonia noncontrol, but thats not possible. reefs are respiring organisms 10 to the 2nd power

and ammonia control requirement is as precise for a reef as it is for a human, variations will make the organism quickly go downhill visually verified.

see how that clown is acting totally normal day to day? eating...thats simply too much surface area to allow for a loss cascade, the only risk to that fish is disease from nonfallow start. a cycle isn't in play here. at all times going forward, only an ammonia test kit not from seneye will claim you have a stalled cycle; it will never register in the actual tank performance. you could add more fish, it wont matter.

however many fish that tank is destined to run, it can hold now, no other way to slice the matter.