Cycling with fish, high nitrates please help

[brandon429]

your aquarium most certainly does not need bottle bac

the sum total of researching stalled cycles is to be led to make a purchase. let the record reflect if you do nothing regarding cycle analysis from this day fwd the tank will never do anything unpredictable. those rocks were cycled, pigmented oppositely of dry rock, months and maybe years before you got them.

thats the only rock Ill ever start a reef with
the other way is boring to the second power

this is now linked to an additional large thread where we hope to stop people from reinvesting in bottle bac $ sales solely due to non seneye ammonia testing. we watch those who willingly stop consulting non seneye for the concern. and all the reefs survive, 100% of the time, to the point its pages of examples like this one.
there's not much more way to demo how certain we are that cycles work oppositely of how bottle bac sellers want to frame them. they're far more practical and reliable and predictable in real life.

so your tank...its cycled. nice one.

 

[Patches&Penny]

I dont understand how I'm cycled when there are still high nitrites present

 

[tehmadreefer]

this tank never had free ammonia this whole time.


forum posters will accept your non seneye ammonia data as 100% fact unquestionable close the book cannot be any other way.



post pics for proof

you did a legit live rock transfer cycle/skip cycle. when I take my 14 yr old nano apart to clean it, and set the rocks on the counter for half an hour as I clean sand, then reassemble it all with new water, thats exactly the steps you took but from lfs-home and your move was probably nicer as it allowed live rocks to be wet, mine darn near dry out (seemingly) but the truth is moving live rocks doesnt kill bacteria, and neither does my deep cleans which are the exact same assembly steps.

if you label a post as a stalled cycle, forums will take that reinforcement. You listed feeding + fish + no death, this reef was cycled the day you brought it home

waiting 50 days more wont help it get better; there's nothing wrong with it.

that you tested and found free ammonia, with a kit known to misread, is no alarm.

Post pics of your reef, we'll link to a 30 page thread on live rock skip cycles. you didnt harm fish, at all, or they'd be dead. You did cycling 2020 instead of cycling 1976.

ps
if you are fiber internet vs dialup, I will not fault you for not waiting 50 mins to download one song. you're allowed to speed up your computing here too along with cycling.


*have you ever wondered how they get 400 reefs at MACNA marine convention to all be ready on the start date, no delays, but on forum posts you've broken a law? I haven't wondered that.

a true ammonia noncontrol event kills your whole reef by next day. it isn't inconsequential. reefs are that hungry to eat up raw ammonia; none is left over outside of thousandths ppm conversion rate. post pics. if fish are not huddled at the top barely breathing in cloudy smelly water, then you did what 400 reefs at MACNA do


B

Uhh wut, did you even read the issue?

 

[brandon429]

that is a perfect question and let the record reflect not anyone agrees with me
\making claims against the commonplace doesnt come unchecked.

but it does come with the only work threads this post will see (where other people's $ is on the line to see how cycles work)

I do work threads, here's my best new proof that nitrite doesnt factor in any reef cycle, ever:

We should use the collective power of the chem forum to prove or deny the possibility of sustained .25 ammonia in reefing

Why does it matter if reef tanks can have stuck cycles? Because when you move homes you don't want to lose animals, cycling science needs precision and predictability in order to protect our tanks. perhaps an emergency setup is needed, no wait time permitted or If you are invited to show...

www.reef2reef.com

nitrite simply doesnt factor anymore in cycling. its as simple as that.

there's a bunch of reefs started showing nitrite doesnt matter. it was a way to sell us more bottle bac/linking nitrite readings to cycle completion.

nitrite never has to be tested for in reefing. that work thread is scrutinized by the best reef chemists we have, awaiting disagreement there.

The only param that matters is ammonia control, you have that down. We aren't factoring any of your test reads here, they're non digital and subject to near constant misread ability.

 

[tehmadreefer]

that is a perfect question and let the record reflect no anyone agrees with me
but instead of just making wild claims, I do work threads, here's my best new proof that nitrite doesnt factor in any reef cycle, ever:

that's already been shown by Randy. Also, it has no effect on marine fish either.

the person is just cycling their tank with a live fish, nothing more to it.

 

[tehmadreefer]

To the OP: here is good info on the cycle and how to know what to expect, etc.

Cycling an Aquarium

Cycling a new aquarium. One of the earliest topics a new aquarium hobbyist needs to learn is how to properly cycle their aquarium. There is a ton of information on this process and many different methods on how to accomplish it. There are many different chemical and biological cycles our tank...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

that thread doesnt differentiate live rock skip cycles vs dry rock cycling, ammonia is added to both systems there and nitrite always matters.




PatchesandPenny's tank is Group B rock from this thread below, it cycles differently from dry rock



our thread says: cycles cant stall and thats why marine conventions start on time, and thats why PandP's reef is already cycled. completed.

The microbiology of reef tank cycling.

You can skip your cycle. Ive been reefing online for twenty years and have never waited one second for a tank to cycle, because I buy rocks that are already cycled and move them home. Here's two: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/octo-high-end-sps-skip-cycle-build.713256/...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Moscar]

I dont understand how I'm cycled when there are still high nitrites present

Hi! A really great short video on cycling is on the Bulk Reef Supply web site. Check out the 5 minute guide series. Can really help make a lot of things clear. Then you can have confidence you're on the right track.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Evening

I am not 100%, but I think Brandon is referring to the use of live rock. If you purchased true live rock the ammonia and nitrite readings may not be as concerning and a cycle is not needed. What rock did you purchase?

Just as a little Factoid (When looking at ammonia it can’t hurt to also look at ph and temp for a full picture of what is going on with the ammonia.)

I agree with Mad . Run thru the R2R cycling guide. I would recommend finishing following that guide. I hate to put clowns thru a cycle, but odds are they survive. Give them plenty of air with surface agitation or air pump to help. Idealy if you are able I would get 2 - 5 gallon buckets and move the fish between them similar to a tank transfer method. Only if you are comfortable doing that, if you are not matching waters the stress may be worse than the ammonia.

keep us updated. You are getting close

 

[brandon429]

Can you guys see the coralline and pigmentation on the live rock in post #22

contrast that to totally white rock

how did this rock in post 22 get coralline on it, while not being cycled
*you can tell its not painted liferock, thats 100% purple paint coverage no bare spots

rock in post #22 is live, the bottom zones haven’t been covered yet

see how the fish isn’t dead, or twitching from being burned


when we fill a reef with wet sand marked ‘contains bacteria‘ on the bag, what’s the effect on nitrification? What’s the sum total effect of sand with bac, and rock with bac, added to a reef tank


PatchesandPenny’s tank was a skip cycle aquarium. Waiting a hundred more days doesn’t put more bacteria on rocks than they had day 1 brought home.





howd all those reefs get started on the same day

I’m seeing reefs with fish, rocks, sand

I’m seeing skip cycle frag tanks with a hundred thousand in corals

but in a forum, PP was advised to strip the tank down, take fish back. Couldn’t possibly be ready.

In this thread the visual clues have been refused, and the test kits accepted in spite of what google searches show regarding api reliability. This tank isn’t mid cycle, or early cycle. It’s completed cycle like the measures they use to start reef conventions on time, for thirty years.
api shows nitrite? I have two hundred threads of that occuring. Doesn’t factor into reef convention starts, or any other start.

 

[Patches&Penny]

Can you guys see the coralline and pigmentation on the live rock in post #22

contrast that to totally white rock

how did this rock in post 22 get coralline on it, while not being cycled
*you can tell its not painted liferock, thats 100% purple paint coverage no bare spots

rock in post #22 is live, the bottom zones haven’t been covered yet

see how the fish isn’t dead, or twitching from being burned


when we fill a reef with wet sand marked ‘contains bacteria‘ on the bag, what’s the effect on nitrification? What’s the sum total effect of sand with bac, and rock with bac, added to a reef tank


PatchesandPenny’s tank was a skip cycle aquarium. Waiting a hundred more days doesn’t put more bacteria on rocks than they had day 1 brought home.





howd all those reefs get started on the same day

I’m seeing reefs with fish, rocks, sand

I’m seeing skip cycle frag tanks with a hundred thousand in corals

but in a forum, PP was advised to strip the tank down, take fish back. Couldn’t possibly be ready.

In this thread the visual clues have been refused, and the test kits accepted in spite of what google searches show regarding api reliability. This tank isn’t mid cycle, or early cycle. It’s completed cycle like the measures they use to start reef conventions on time, for thirty years.
api shows nitrite? I have two hundred threads of that occuring. Doesn’t factor into reef convention starts, or any other start.

 

[brandon429]

yes indeed that rock is dark pigmented, thats been underwater multiple years before you got it. there are actual inclusions and growths that signify it as very reliable very ideal live rock to be using.

your tank is unlikely to get dinos with such import right off the bat.

Whats new about your reef is the glass holding the water surrounding your rocks

the actual filter system for that tank might be fifty years old, or a hundred, that might be real live rock I dont know

pretty neat. perfect water clarity day by day, two clowns, close the book shut the door its totally cycled.

 

[ca1ore]

That you started with live/seeded rock and are already seeing nitrates means that the bio filter is working. Yes, not ideal to add fish on day 5, but clowns are tough little buggars and from the earlier picture look just fine. Keep doing what you are doing, just feed sparingly.

As to the high nitrates, I wouldn’t worry about that until you get no readings for ammonia or nitrites. On smaller tanks, water changes work well to manage nitrates.

 

[brandon429]

ramp up biology wont apply here, this cycle isn't limited in any way.

Cycles do not continue to pile on more bac the older they get/they're full up when the cycle completes. we dont know how many decades ago this cycle was fully completed.

whatever the max fish this tank can carry before overload, it can carry that right now. waiting longer after a closed cycle doesnt add more bacteria to rock surfaces, they carry their max not long after the cycle starts.

adding a bunch of fish might conflict behaviorally or by disease vectors though.
*that may sound like a bunch of made up stuff just now, its not.

consider the sand rinse thread. thats 30 pages of removing sandbeds from full matured reefs, and the rocks immediately process the fish waste without needing more bac, since surfaces carry maximum bacteria if they're kept wet. this info is well-vetted. being able to apply that knowledge allows PandP to do very specific things with the reef and the fish without having to doubt filtration abilities

 

[brandon429]

Read this thread

At what level is ammonia toxic?

I have acquired some live stock from someone who was shutting his tank down. 4 fish, a star, couple of shrimp, a few crabs and a few snails going into my 625 litre which was lightly loaded with a couple of clowns and small CUC. I also took all his live rock and bio blocks too which is sitting in...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Patches&Penny]

Just giving you guys an update since may 14ths post.

 

[brandon429]

id vote it .5, per api. nice

lets see tank pic...thats always the fell swoop.

*one day that test may go green, then look for a deceased fish~ they're useful for high level reading transitions.

clearly, your tank is cycled. Ill enjoy tracking how long it takes api to agree.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Hi, @Patches&Penny

thanks for the update. How are you and the fish doing?

 

[Patches&Penny]

I moved some things around, added some new toys

 

[brandon429]

this thread is very well documented its really helpful to see it all come together. great job.