Cycling?

[brandon429]

that ok water to use for sure. does tank smell at all? feed really is a powerful tax as Lasse mentioned, if there's free ammonia that is likely pushing it but no single test from API convinces me, has to be API + some visual or smell component we can proof it with.

 

[eternalsea]

No smell at all

 

[brandon429]

that has to seal it

Is there any way to take a sample to LFS or buddies house for alt ammonia test? also did you use Prime or any other water prep conditioners other than bottle bac

maybe one quick ammonia test on straight clean saltwater if you have any handy, just curious about its hard yellow ability to see if it shows a solid zero

 

[eternalsea]

The sample kit I got came with the saltwater tank and may be old?

 

[brandon429]

not sure, but I would truly love to watch this thread unfold with counter tests in some way so we can validate claims. hey did you use Prime water conditioner at all in the prep steps

 

[IslandLifeReef]

No smell at all

that has to seal it

Is there any way to take a sample to LFS or buddies house for alt ammonia test? also did you use Prime or any other water prep conditioners other than bottle bac

maybe one quick ammonia test on straight clean saltwater if you have any handy, just curious about its hard yellow ability to see if it shows a solid zero

Not sure what is going on here, but @eternalsea was not the OP in this thread. This thread seems to have gotten off track of the OP's original thread and could be confusing to the OP and others. Why not move this discussing to another thread so that the OP can be helped with their situation.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

We are about to use your thread in this giant thread here as a neat example of blended cycling (your cycle is done, why=coming up)

How can you say this when the OP's ammonia keeps going up. In three days ammonia has gone from 0 ppm to 4.0 ppm. That doesn't sound like a bacteria filter capable of reducing ammonia to me.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

First - no feeding at all. Its the feeding that give your NH3/NH4. Dose large amount of nitrification bacteria like nitrospira. If you go to my 15 steps - you will have some other tips how to get bacteria into your aquarium. But NO FEEDING till you read no or very low NH3/NH4. If you know your pH - you can use this tool to calculate how much of free NH3 you have (NH3 is the toxic form) The picture shows the calculation I did on your measured level of 4 ppm total ammonia

You can see that you are near the limits for acute toxicity. Your notes show a pH of 8.1 - if that´s true - it is good in this situation. If your salinity is higher (it should be) the NH3 amount is lower. But do not feed. The fish is probably stressed - you are in a situation - it is very difficult to give advises. Moving into new aquarium could be worse, changing water too (new mixed water is stressful) If they do not show any signs of problems - it can be better to let it works out. But you are the one that need to take the decision what to do. BUT DO NOT FEED in this situation.

If you decide to ride the serpent - let the light be of, do not stress the fish and try to lower the temperature below 25 degree C, run your skimmer with as much air as possible - without skimmer cup if necessary in order to get as much air as possible - and do not feed. If your pH will get lower - it is good - the toxic amount of NH3 will be lower. Much air can rise your pH but in this case - the NH3 must come out. If you do not have a skimmer - let your outlet of your filter make as large surface movement as possible. Its good that you have a foam filter - it will help you in this situation

As long as you test shows NO2 (nitrite) - the NO3 (nitrate) readings is false.

Try to get nitrification bacteria in one or another form and dose every day. When both NH3/NH4 and NO2 are as close as possible to zero - you can star feeding but very, very sparse

Sincerely Lasse

PS - do not feed!!!!!!

Thanks for the great info @Lasse. @EternalClown, this is the best advice you can get. There seems to be a discussion about a different tank on your thread, so I would follow the advice of @Lasse.

 

[brandon429]

Said due to: all the things on page one of cycling thread linked

And living fish, none survive 4 ppm true, for a week. So many reasons

 

[eternalsea]

Yes it is the same tank. Due to having trouble before I realized the app didn’t work I had two accounts. Yet this is the main one so it is the same tank. Sorry for the confusion. I did a 4 gallon water change and will feeed very sparingly and see how it goes. Also hey another test kit and see how it goes?

 

[brandon429]

agreed get counter testing for sure if poss. did you use Prime or any water conditioners at the start

to make sure we're not on wrong thread, does occur sometimes, I'm remarking on a blended system, part live rock and part dry rock- known live rock transferred over, handling a skip cycle just fine having been dosed with bottle bac as well. we have 18 pages of that occurring and we have examples of people telling us they have 8 ppm sustained along with: good smell water, no hazing, clear fish, been feeding. we list several things that cause ammonia misreads, those may or may not apply here. It would be neat to be able to see the actual test vs the writing. the pic of the vial and its backing card under white light

it would be amazing to me if no live rock was used, and no bottle bac.

the reported ammonia measures off a test kit unverified isn't a surprise, its just logged numbers. not calibrated, could be affected by prime not sure. we w find it eventually though, ammonia tracing threads are so much fun.

I believe ammonia readings when they're stated off a Seneye, we haven't been able to collect a single thread yet showing a seneye stuck at .25 ppm or any other ppm free ammonia. we have thirty or more avail for api though as misreads.

 

[brandon429]

how could ammonia drop to 2.0 in that written chart then back up, that up down up doesn't follow known cycling charts. just spotted that.

It could never have gone down at all if it wasn't cycled. it could have been feed ammonia some bottle bac companies package inside shooting back up to 4 stated, but either way we're foregoing an important rule: there is a biological consequence to sustained free ammonia that can be measured, always, without testers.

none of the requisite nontest indicators are here for free ammonia, and they're so reliable we can build entire cycling threads for both dry and live surfaces using zero testing.

I agree minimum use of live rock and mostly dry surfaces is pushing it, it really is

but we're missing the consequence portion. ONLY testing written down is what we've got.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Said due to: all the things on page one of cycling thread linked

And living fish, none survive 4 ppm true, for a week. So many reasons

According to the chart, it has only been three days, unless there is other info that we don’t have.

@Lasse showed how 4ppm ammonia really isn’t all free ammonia, which is what we are worried about. The OP, who is apparently two different posters, used dry sand and some live rock, but mostly dry rock. We don’t know anything about the live rock the OP used.

For these reasons, as well as ammonia rising, I think it is premature to say that the tank is cycled.

 

[Lasse]

Yes it is the same tank. Due to having trouble before I realized the app didn’t work I had two accounts. Yet this is the main one so it is the same tank. Sorry for the confusion. I did a 4 gallon water change and will feeed very sparingly and see how it goes. Also hey another test kit and see how it goes?

Do not feed!!!!!!!! It is the worst you can do at the moment. Your tank have not get through even the first step. NH3/NH4 - >NO2 (IMO). It is your low pH that have save you from disaster. Even if most NH3/NH4 test can give a false reading - a reading of 4 ppm total ammonia (NH3/NH4) says something. In a couple of days - the NH3/NH4 readings will decline and the NO2 reading will skyrocking. But do not feed. 80 % of the surplus ammonia will be released by the fish the first hours after feeding. It take place in the gills.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[brandon429]

Eternal

Can you do the ammonia test today but post a pic of the vial and the color card

You have the only aquarium running 4 ppm daily with zero biological consequence from the #1 consequential compound in our tanks, so those clues still misalign. True free ammonia kills within hours, and climbs. Lack of able surface area means daily fish excretion compounds, increases.

If you reported smell, 4 ppm, animal loss and cloudy water I would suspect free ammonia.

fish are ok I assume today, water = no smell and clear. Just need to see the tester to tie in. getting to see the actual test color is an important step. Post the vial and color chart outside, in normal daylight let’s see can’t wait

 

[eternalsea]

Do not feed!!!!!!!! It is the worst you can do at the moment. Your tank have not get through even the first step. NH3/NH4 - >NO2 (IMO). It is your low pH that have save you from disaster. Even if most NH3/NH4 test can give a false reading - a reading of 4 ppm total ammonia (NH3/NH4) says something. In a couple of days - the NH3/NH4 readings will decline and the NO2 reading will skyrocking. But do not feed. 80 % of the surplus ammonia will be released by the fish the first hours after feeding. It take place in the gills.

Sincerely Lasse

The ammonia has gone down to 1ppm and it’s a API so clean saltwater water is .15 or .25ppm. What next?

 

[eternalsea]

I think the bacteria starter caused the ammonia to rise?

 

[Lasse]

The worst is done - just not feed for a couple of days. The step NH3/NH4 -> NO2 have start to work. Keep on adding bacteria - it is time for the next step NO2 -> NO3. In freshwater is this the toxic phase NO2 is very toxic to fresh water organism. In Saltwater is it not so problematic - NO2 is not toxic - but your total cycle is not ready before you read 0 in NO2 This can take some time but adding nitrification bacteria will speed up the process. After a couple of days - you can start to feed very sparsely, maybe very, very little every second day for a week or two.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

I think the bacteria starter caused the ammonia to rise?

No - the bacteria did not have the NH3/NH4 to rise - it was your feeding!!! However - the bacteria help you to lower the NH3/NH4.

Sincerely Lasse