Dealing with cyanobacteria (Lyngbya majuscula)

[DEL 707]

I've been dealing with, what I believe is lyngbya, for serveral months and I'm not sure what to do.

A few months back I had a bad case of whitespot that managed to wipe out most of my fish. It seems to have gotten worse since then.

I've been bubble scrubbing and pulling out what I can, but it seems to keep growing back just as quickly.

I did some tests today.
Ph 8.2
Nitrate 2
Phosphate 0.07
Alkalinity 8.7
Calcium 430
Magnesium 1440

I'm dosing Reef Zlements InOne daily. I was also dosing magnesium, but I've stopped now that I've hit a good level.

I ordered some Chemiclean which will hopefully come some time this week, I had to order overseas.
But I did some reading tonight and it's seems like Chemiclean isn't always effective against Lyngbya.
Should I try it at least?

 

[cdemoss01]

#fishmedic

 

[EnterName]

Two things you might want to consider:

1. Sometimes diatoms attach to green hair algae, which can make it look brown just like the filaments you're dealing with. I'd recommend finding someone with a microscope who can take a closer look. 400x magnification should be more than enough to distinguish hair algae with diatoms from Lyngbya, maybe even 200x.
2. That's a lot of growth, but you still have detectable nutrient levels. I could imagine that if you kill off a lot of the bacteria and whatever you're currently dealing with using something like Chemiclean, you might see a sudden spike in nutrients, and if you don't get that under control in time, something else will just move in to replace your current issue. Sometimes it's dinoflagellates, sometimes it's green hair algae or another cyanobacterium. I'd try to get the levels down as far as possible before starting treatment. It might look ugly, but right now it's kind of "helping" by reducing nutrients.

I'm really sorry about your fish that's the part I won't be able to help with, and the already tagged fishmedics will have to take it from here.

 

[MichaelReefer]

That looks more like some Cyano and some Hair algae maybe covered in Diatoms or cyano?

I had a bad bout of Cyano years back and once I got rid of it I've never had it come back. Luckily you have a small tank which makes the water changes following Chemi-Clean easier. I never had any issues with Chemi-clean, coral was mad and the tank looked angry for a week or so but cleared up after I continued with water changes.

I would start with Manual removal of all that Hair algae on the back, run the Chemiclean and start from there after. Remember to run an air stone and follow up with required water changes.I always found its easier to target one thing at a time.

 

[DEL 707]

Thanks for all the help.
I'm hoping my order will turn up at some point over the weekend.
If it turns up, I'm going to give the tank a good scrub on Monday and siphon, pull out, all the gunk I can, then start dosing.

I have an air pump, so I'll get that running.
I've heard people say it makes your skimmer go crazy and that you need to remove the cup.
I have a Red Sea Skimmer, I think the cup is not removable. Do I open the valve on the collection cup, so that all it's contents just run back into the sump?

Is there anything else I need to do when using Chemiclean?

 

[EnterName]

I have a Red Sea Skimmer, I think the cup is not removable. Do I open the valve on the collection cup, so that all it's contents just run back into the sump?

If It's a RedSea RSK Skimmer you can absolutely remove the cup, but otherwise you can just open the valve. It's not easy to get off the skimmer as they use sealing rings to ensure no water is coming out between the cup and the skimmer body. Just make sure the cup is empty and clean first If you haven't removed the cup yet, I would imagine it hasn't been cleaned much.

Is there anything else I need to do when using Chemiclean?

• Before using chemicals I would make absolutely sure you are dealing with Cyanobacteria and not something else.
• Air pump and skimmer need to be running at all times to supply oxygen.
• Syphon out as much stuff as you can before treatment so the die-off doesn't cause too much issues with released toxins or simply a nutrient spike.
• Prepare enough water so you can perform a large water change if something goes wrong and/or after the treatment.
• Note that chemicals pretty much always treat the symptom but not the cause. So if you don't change something regarding flow, nutrient import/export, maintenance/filtration or whatever else might be causing the issue, the Cyanos (or something else) will likely come back and take over again.

 

[DEL 707]

1. Sometimes diatoms attach to green hair algae, which can make it look brown just like the filaments you're dealing with. I'd recommend finding someone with a microscope who can take a closer look. 400x magnification should be more than enough to distinguish hair algae with diatoms from Lyngbya, maybe even 200x.

I dusted off my old, very cheap, microscope and took a few pictures.

Does these pictures help?

 

[EnterName]

I dusted off my old, very cheap, microscope and took a few pictures.
[...]
Does these pictures help?
[...]

Yes, they actually do!
This looks like green hair algae. It lacks any obvious segments like most you would expect from Cladophora, Boodlea, or similar. Instead you might be dealing with Derbesia spp. or similar, but the exact genus doesn't really matter. I don't see attached diatoms so the coloration you see appears to be solely based on the lighting.

Cyanobacteria (including Lyngbya spp.) won't contain small chloroplasts (the tiny dots and rods you see in the filaments). They also wouldn't branch apart and instead consist of isolated moving filaments, often with visible very small segments like in the image below:

(unidentified Cyanobacteria)​

Post #52 (page #3) in my microscopy thread shows the typical movement of active cyanobacteria. In that case it "spirals" forward, but often they just glide into a direction without appearing to rotate.

Segmented green algae like Cladophora on the other hand has larger segments and still chloroplasts:

(Some segmented green algae of unidentified genus)
​

In other words: Chemiclean isn't the right choice here as it seems.

 

[DEL 707]

Well....****.

Can you recommend a product to help me out?

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

i used chemiclean a few months ago and can attest to it’s effectiveness. The only annoying thing it did was make my skinner overflow for a week.

i did not see any coral loss or change in nutrients or any indication that i screwed up the biome. The stuff really did work well.

I ran some carbon for a few days after the treatment period to be safe. If it wipes out any nitrifying bacteria, I wouldn’t or couldn’t tell.

I hated the idea of it but i could not shake the cyano for months.

 

[EnterName]

Well....****.

Can you recommend a product to help me out?

I would keep removing it manually and try to bring nutrients to nearly (or maybe even actually) undetectable levels. As long as there is growth, there are nutrients available. Natural ocean nutrient levels are usually below what most test kits can detect, so it's not like something will starve just because nitrate (which isn't the preferred nitrogen source for corals anyway) isn't available. Granular ferric oxide (GFO) will help to reduce phosphate while water changes will reduce organics. Once Carbon, Nitrogen, and Phosphorus are "limited" the growth should slow down so an appropriately sized clean up crew should be able to deal with it.

If you think you have tried everything and there is no way beating this algae you can try Fluconazole-based products like Blue Life FluxRx. Fluconazole is used for fungal and yeast infections but it also works on hair algae by inhibiting their ergosterol synthesis which is essential to them. It's considered relatively reef safe and might already work at 50%-75% of the recommended dose.

Disclaimer: I have not used Fluconazole in my tank yet, but I've read a lot about it. You will find various threads here on Reef2Reef that might help you decide if it is actually the right thing for your tank.

 

[DEL 707]

Thank you all, for the advice.

FluxRx will have to wait, because I'm on holiday soon and I don't want to person taking over the tank dealing with any unexpected problems.

Last week week I started dosing nitrate, because I was almost at 0. I dosed nitrate for 5 days to raise it up, but when I tested today, it was 0.

This week, I've been dosing Reef Zlements InOne 12.5ml and Reef Zlements Nitro 10x 3ml.

PH 8.2
Nitrate 0
Phosphate 0.04
Alkalinity 8.4
Calcium 370
Magnesium 1140

I'm not sure If I should buy another nitrate test kit. Using a Red Sea liquid at the moment.

What should I be doing? Now that my nitrate looks to be 0 and my phosphate levels are dropping?

I removed quite a lot of the algae today, especially off the back wall. But it seems near impossible to get it off the rock work.

 

[EnterName]

What should I be doing? Now that my nitrate looks to be 0 and my phosphate levels are dropping?

I removed quite a lot of the algae today, especially off the back wall. But it seems near impossible to get it off the rock work.

I don't think low nutrient levels are a bad thing when there's a lot of algae growth. As long as it grows, everything of importance (carbon, nitrogen, phosphorus, iron, molybdenum, etc.) is available. In nature, nitrate and phosphate levels are far lower than what we keep in our tanks, so corals and their zooxanthellae won't starve just because nutrient levels are below the detection limit of your tests.

Manual removal is always good, and you can try using a toothbrush to get it off the rocks, but a clean up crew that is willing to eat this algae might be required to get rid of it long-term.