Differences between Nano tanks and larger tanks

[hart24601]

Yea I did panorama pro LEDs and then Steve's extreme sps kit with another row of violets.

 

[Surfandturf]

I think that a lot of people forget that Nanos cannot have even the smallest of deadspots. I have seen quite a few nano set ups with deadspots in the back, only to be nuked months later die to something dying and being stuck there or detritus build up. The sand (if there is any) is usually all jacked up in these deadspots as well. Bad things happen quickly in nanos.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Sorry bro but I am going to have to agree with RM on this one...
Personally, I would stay away from Nanos all together unless I felt like tinkering daily....

Sorry bro but I am going to have to agree with RM on this one...
Personally, I would stay away from Nanos all together unless I felt like tinkering daily....

I had a 5 gal on the desk here w a 3in sand bed, aquaclear w carbon, ATO, Hob $13 refugium and heater, 18x PC and led strips. Ran for 2.5 3 years, no tinkering. Had to take it down as it was too hard for me to cool. $$$
Same work Less actually, than a 30g.

 

[Surfandturf]

I had a 5 gal on the desk here w a 3in sand bed, aquaclear w carbon, ATO, Hob $13 refugium and heater, 18x PC and led strips. Ran for 2.5 3 years, no tinkering. Had to take it down as it was too hard for me to cool. $$$
Same work Less actually, than a 30g.

Did you also have 5lbs of live rock in it?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Did you also have 5lbs of live rock in it?

hahaha. Probably!
OK No not all, In all honesty I dont recall, I scaped to make it look nice. Also I had a lot of sand too, and I kind of think as each tank is different the nutrints would just be what they are. If it ran high nO Po id assume not enough rock. or other processing and export.
I do point to that tank as one of my accidental successes that Im still in the process of understanding. Never overwhelmed by cyano, hair algae etc, shrooms and zoas grew,(not all zoa) amazing Pineapple coral growth(blastomussa Merletti).
Ive graduated as a reefer NOW, into becoming a chronic overthinker, back then I tossed sand rock and water in a tank and it worked. A L.A.R.S. Poster boy. But in retrospect I was still hitting the key principles.

 

[Surfandturf]

hahaha. Probably!
OK No not all, In all honesty I dont recall, I scaped to make it look nice. Also I had a lot of sand too, and I kind of think as each tank is different the nutrints would just be what they are. If it ran high nO Po id assume not enough rock. or other processing and export.
I do point to that tank as one of my accidental successes that Im still in the process of understanding. Never overwhelmed by cyano, hair algae etc, shrooms and zoas grew,(not all zoa) amazing Pineapple coral growth(blastomussa Merletti).
Ive graduated as a reefer NOW, into becoming a chronic overthinker, back then I tossed sand rock and water in a tank and it worked. A L.A.R.S. Poster boy. But in retrospect I was still hitting the key principles.

Lol yeah. The guy was advocating putting in at least 10 lbs of live rock and a deep sand bed. I was like " how much water do you think that will leave you, maybe 7 gallons?". Thats when he said, yeah, I guess you have a point. I guess I am in the group that thinks live rock and water changes will be plenty.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I guess I am in the group that thinks live rock and water changes will be plenty.

for some odd reason theres a bunch of science guys who would agree with you.

 

[Coastie Reefer]

12lbs of rock (dry weight) and 5-6lbs of sand (dry weight)

 

[Surfandturf]

for some odd reason theres a bunch of science guys who would agree with you.

Yeah. That's something he said "well now your getting all scientific". I was like, well yea! Anyway, I will be honest, I have struggled with keeping a mixed reef. The only sps that I was successful with was montipora and I had to give it to a buddy because it grew so fast that it started shading the zoas. The pink setosa worked well and a mili, but I had to start dosing and I am not really a fan of dosing because if I am off by a fraction I am toast.

 

[Surfandturf]

12lbs of rock (dry weight) and 5-6lbs of sand (dry weight)

Whats the volume of water?

 

[Coastie Reefer]

If I had to guess, somewhere between 8 and 9. When I do a water change I simply siphon out a 5 gallon bucket of tank water and the tank is just under half full. I fill the bucket to about an inch below the rim of the bucket.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Yeah. That's something he said "well now your getting all scientific". I was like, well yea! Anyway, I will be honest, I have struggled with keeping a mixed reef. The only sps that I was successful with was montipora and I had to give it to a buddy because it grew so fast that it started shading the zoas. The pink setosa worked well and a mili, but I had to start dosing and I am not really a fan of dosing because if I am off by a fraction I am toast.

that there is the big prob w nano. every thing is small.

 

[Surfandturf]

If I had to guess, somewhere between 8 and 9. When I do a water change I simply siphon out a 5 gallon bucket of tank water and the tank is just under half full. I fill the bucket to about an inch below the rim of the bucket.

I guess i forgot, what size tank?

 

[Coastie Reefer]

I guess i forgot, what size tank?

Just a standard 10g. Does have a aquaclear 50 on it so that adds a little volume but only about 16 ounces.

 

[Surfandturf]

Just a standard 10g. Does have a aquaclear 50 on it so that adds a little volume but only about 16 ounces.

So I guess that my question would be, why the sand? Unless for aesthetics, I would think that the 12lbs of live rock would have more than enough beneficial bacteria. If you don't feed the tank enough, wouldn't't some of the beneficial bacteria die off anyway pretty much making the extra sand or rock a wash? I also found this calculator that seems pretty cool.

http://reef.diesyst.com/volcalc/volcalc.html

 

[Tori]

that there is the big prob w nano. every thing is small.

Yep. I've had good luck with sps and figured out dosing but my latest struggle has been Coral warfare because everything is so close together and growing. I lost a large Acan Lord colony to a small Acan hilae that was at least three inches away :confused:... I knew they shouldn't touch but had no idea the Acan Hilae could spew some kind goo from its skin to cover the distance. More my fault for liking the look of a full reef and not necessarily a mark against nanos.

 

[Coastie Reefer]

Yeah the sand is 100% aesthetic, and it's only about an inch deep. I'm no microbiologist, but I do know that bacteria is one of if not the most prolific and versatile forms of life that exists. I doubt an established bacteria colony would starve from lack of feeding. If you consider large volume sps dominate systems run ultra low nutrients, often by avoiding excessive feeding, with no worries about bacteria die off. Also you have to consider that it's not only uneaten food that feeds the bacteria, but the fish poop, shrimp poop, and anything else that poops in our tanks.

 

[Tori]

Yeah the sand is 100% aesthetic, and it's only about an inch deep. I'm no microbiologist, but I do know that bacteria is one of if not the most prolific and versatile forms of life that exists. I doubt an established bacteria colony would starve from lack of feeding. If you consider large volume sps dominate systems run ultra low nutrients, often by avoiding excessive feeding, with no worries about bacteria die off. Also you have to consider that it's not only uneaten food that feeds the bacteria, but the fish poop, shrimp poop, and anything else that poops in our tanks.

Same here. I have about an inch of sand purely for asthetic reasons. I've still seen hair worms and pods in there though.

 

[Frop]

So I was at an lfs last night and was pulled into a conversation between the owner and a prospective customer. Basically, the owner wanted this customer to buy and start a nano reef. During the conversation the owner said that this guy could throw saltwater, live rock, and live sand in the tank and drop a fish in immediately. I had to tell the guy that the information was wrong and that he needed to ensure that his tank "cycled". The owner then proceeded to say that live sand would always be cleaned by his cleanup crew so he would rarely have to do water changes in his nano. I told him that this was false as well. I know a lot of people with larger tanks, and they have created quite the self-sustaining system, but that is very hard to do in a 10g with 10lbs of live rock and 4 lbs of sand. I explained that with all of that added to the tank you are looking at more like 7 gallons of water. Maybe. I told him that if he wanted live sand, he could probably do it, but that it would be a good idea to vacuum it in 3rds or stir it a little.The owner went to the back and left the guy with me and I told him to do some research and that despite what he was told, yes he does need to wait for a cycle.
After the guy left the owner said that there were a lot of things wrong with what I said, I laughed and asked what were those things? He told me that he could just throw stability in the tank and boom he has a reef tank. He also said that you can NEVER vacuum sand. He then admitted that he has never had a nano tank, ever. I told him that he was wrong about almost everything he told the guy. Telling someone that they can have a thriving nano reef and do monthly maintenance is totally of base. I also informed him that a nano is much more work and constant upkeep. He said that he has been "doing this a heck of a lot longer than 6 years". This is not a place I buy from, it is a newer place. My normal spot would never give advice like a nano is great for beginners because there is so little maintenance.

I agree with this. I have a 10gallon with 5.5gallon fuge. And this thing can get messy (I don't have a vacuum). I never started with live rock but dry rock and live sand with biospira was a 2week cycle (at that time it was just the 10gallon). Later I started a QT that got fish in it the same day using one of the filters that was running in the DT that probably had the beneficial bacteria already colonized. No rock or sand in QT. That hosted fish in 24 hrs.

Also idk if it is just me but clean up crews suck lol. I don't have any real noticeable difference. Actually most of mine are dead except 1-2 crabs and 2 nassarius snails. I don't plan to replace any. It makes more of a difference if I just add a filter or scrub the algae on the glass lol

As for maintenance I add water to it about every two days and feed daily. Probably clean the glass every week. And a large water change every 1-2 weeks.

 

[Surfandturf]

Yeah the sand is 100% aesthetic, and it's only about an inch deep. I'm no microbiologist, but I do know that bacteria is one of if not the most prolific and versatile forms of life that exists. I doubt an established bacteria colony would starve from lack of feeding. If you consider large volume sps dominate systems run ultra low nutrients, often by avoiding excessive feeding, with no worries about bacteria die off. Also you have to consider that it's not only uneaten food that feeds the bacteria, but the fish poop, shrimp poop, and anything else that poops in our tanks.

Great points! This is why I love R2R! We have so many smart, experienced folks here. I am no no Randy Holmes or a biologist lol. I am a financial analyst so it is safe to assume that I over analyze things. These discussions are great because I not only see my aquarium as a beautiful slice of the ocean, but also an ongoing science experiment. Maybe bacteria picks and chooses where it lives when given the option of live sand or live rock. I do know from my past experience of a deep sand bed (purchased in bags of live sand) and 14 pounds of live rock for my bio cube 14, I had one heck of a cycle! When I set this tank up, I had live rock and saltwater from the same lfs. No cycle. I tested every day for 3 weeks waiting for it. Nothing. I even added live nitrifying bacteria. Still nothing lol. I waited the full 6 weeks before I put anything in and I have not experienced a crash yet (knock on wood). Now that deep sand bed started getting gunky in my bio cube I started vacuuming 1/3 of the sandbed each week and boom no issues.