Dino ID please

[Jason_1982]

Thanks for the tips. I'll keep a close eye on PO3 and nitrates.

I may consider another black out too. I'll keep you posted.

Hello, it's time to post an update and continue to pray for a solution. I am starting to doubt that this is an AMPHIDINIUM strain. I will repost pictures of samples. It is the same picture as before but I have confirmed that these are growing on the hair algae that I now have allowed to grow wild. These dinos also love the tips of SPS and ultimately kill them.

I did have issues with dosing nitrates and crashing phosphate as well. This combo certainly killed my sps as well.

In any event I have done multiple 3 day black outs. I manually removed my sand but the concerning bugs are attaching to algea and sps. I also daily add 7 drops of sponge excel to my 100g of water.

My skimmer has been off for 4 weeks now which has helped stabilize my dosing. The following levels have been stable 4 weeks, the gravel is mostly removed with light patches of dinos. Hair algae and sps all have the same dinos.

My 2 xr30 radions now run at 35% (from 60)

Nitrates between 5 and 10ppm (salifert)
Phosphate 0.07ppm (hanna)

I now grow chaeto and sea lettuce at insane rates. When this 1st stated my chaeto turned white and died.

Any tips or advice greatly appreciated

 

[Jason_1982]

@taricha I posted some more pics of tank and dinos

 

[Jason_1982]

@taricha more pics previous post too

Since these are growing in algae I was wondering if these could be Prorocentrum lima

 

[Gareth elliott]

I had luck with getting diatoms to reproduce with adding some sand and mud from a local beach. I added to another tank. Added a large amount of silica, threw on a light and harvested water from here. (I also had ulva in there)
(Goal was more diverse diatom population)

the macros algae’s growing are a good sign. Ime meant the Dino’s we’re losing. first dino experience I had went from a bloom small amounts of ulva to 0 Dino’s overnight and a week later ulva was all over my rocks lol.

 

[Jason_1982]

I had luck with getting diatoms to reproduce with adding some sand and mud from a local beach. I added to another tank. Added a large amount of silica, threw on a light and harvested water from here. (I also had ulva in there)
(Goal was more diverse diatom population)

the macros algae’s growing are a good sign. Ime meant the Dino’s we’re losing. first dino experience I had went from a bloom small amounts of ulva to 0 Dino’s overnight and a week later ulva was all over my rocks lol.

I am adding silicates to help get diatoms and they are not growing or silicates are not raising on test kits. I think we have a different dino in my tank because they moved from gravel to algea and/or corals

 

[Gareth elliott]

It was a slow process they were on my sand rocks; I still have no idea how to clean a gorg with Dino’s on them.

Some really do take awhile, what else is in the sponge additive? I made my own silica water glass, well sorta. I made a saturated solution, filterEd out what didn’t dissolve. If have ph probe can use that as your dose guide. water glass will increase ph. slowly dose say 3ml, wait 5 minutes, repeat. I’d probably stop at 9ml total. But as long as doesn’t change your ph, there really isn’t a negative to silica, it’s far higher in the ocean than our tanks.

 

[Jason_1982]

It was a slow process they were on my sand rocks; I still have no idea how to clean a gorg with Dino’s on them.

Some really do take awhile, what else is in the sponge additive? I made my own silica water glass, well sorta. I made a saturated solution, filterEd out what didn’t dissolve. If have ph probe can use that as your dose guide. water glass will increase ph. slowly dose say 3ml, wait 5 minutes, repeat. I’d probably stop at 9ml total. But as long as doesn’t change your ph, there really isn’t a negative to silica, it’s far higher in the ocean than our tanks.

Where did you get liquid glass? I've had no luck finding generic silica

 

[Gareth elliott]

Amazon, I ordered dry and mixed. But here is a Liquid one
go slow watch ph, wear gloves while pouring. It’s a little corrosive

 

[Jason_1982]

Amazon, I ordered dry and mixed. But here is a Liquid one
go slow watch ph, wear gloves while pouring. It’s a little corrosive

Now to find one that ships to canada

 

[taricha]

@taricha more pics previous post too

Since these are growing in algae I was wondering if these could be Prorocentrum lima

These are an amphidinium type. (we likely have a few different species of amphidinium and because they have no armored plates, and their shape can morph, even the professional scientists don't often try to ID to species - because it pretty much requires DNA).
I said that to say, if it's attaching on the edges of corals and algae, then it's moving into the water - UV (and filter floss in flow) will offer some reduction. Also, species that grow as epiphytes on algae are virtually always toxic to some extent, because otherwise they'd get mowed down by herbivores.

 

[Jason_1982]

These are an amphidinium type. (we likely have a few different species of amphidinium and because they have no armored plates, and their shape can morph, even the professional scientists don't often try to ID to species - because it pretty much requires DNA).
I said that to say, if it's attaching on the edges of corals and algae, then it's moving into the water - UV (and filter floss in flow) will offer some reduction. Also, species that grow as epiphytes on algae are virtually always toxic to some extent, because otherwise they'd get mowed down by herbivores.

Ok. Thank you. I will continue to course of action. I run my large aquaUV 24/7. I will continue to export and filter. I will maintain elevated nitrates and phosphates as well. I am increasing my silicates slowly.

Now that I have no sps left I can keep doing routine blackouts which seem to help force them to the water column.

I added carbon last week as well.

I do have a lot of hair algae now. I moved my urchin to this tank to help that. Is there anything I should do or just let it go for a while?

Lots of chaeto in fuge. Fuge is also fairly covered in cyano. (Low flow and cheap plant bulb)

Do you think it's ok to pre mix nitrates and phosphates together so I can dose them in proper ratios?

 

[Gareth elliott]

If mix id shoot for a 20:1 ratio or higher, mimicking fish poop percentages. When i mixed for a targeted goal i ended up way over dosing phosphate after my dinos went away.


Creatine

Molar mass: 131.13 g/mol

Nitrogen molar mass 84.042





Calculate

To reach your target of 1ppm NO3 you will need to add 30.86 grams (equivalent to 1 tbsp + 1 tsp + 1/2 tsp + 1/32 tsp ) of KNO3 to your 250mL dosing container. Add 1mL of that mix to your 20gal aquarium to yield:







Calculate

To reach your target of 0.05ppm PO4 you will need to add 1.74 grams (equivalent to 1/4 tsp + 1/32 tsp + 1/64 tsp ) of K2HPO4 to your 250mL dosing container. Add 1mL of that mix to your 20gal aquarium to yield:



To reach your target of 0.001ppm K you will need to add 36 milligrams (equivalent to less than 1/64 tsp) of KCl to your 250mL dosing container. Add 1mL of that mix to your 20gal aquarium to yield





To reach your target of 0.0006ppm Fe you will need to add 174 milligrams (equivalent to 1/32 tsp ) of Plantex CSM+B to your 250mL dosing container. Add 1mL of that mix to your 20gal aquarium to yield:

ignore anything involving creatine or plantex this was for another mixture. Was attempting to culture lactic acid bacteria, and dose that lol. still a work in progress.

 

[Jason_1982]

@taricha

A little update. I continue to fight a roller coaster of nitrates and phosphates rise and falls and I fine tune my dosing.

I have continued to vacuum out gravel and have virtually none left.

Most dinos are gone but stubborn ones still attach to the last sps victims. Small patches develop on algae covered rocks that I vacuum up. I'm going to do yet another 3 day black out to get the last few colonies to free swim. It appears these AMPHIDINIUM must be of a swimming variety.

Today while checking a sample I see a lot more tiny tiny bugs. Any idea what they are ? I hope they are good because there a millions in a sample at like 1/100 the size

 

[Jason_1982]

Bump. Can anyone help ID the small green bug beside the dino? I see these all over gravel samples. I hope they are good bugs

 

[Jason_1982]

Bump. Can anyone help ID the small green bug beside the dino? I see these all over gravel samples. I hope they are good bugs

 

[Jason_1982]

@taricha

Hello again. I was wondering if you can help me again. A small bit of history, i did a full restart with bleached rock. I am doing things right. I cycled a new tank with ammonia. I then added phyto, pods, and corraline from algae barn. 3 months went by before I started turning on my lights. I also took some seeded bio balls from a few tanks. I have ensured my nitrates amd phosphates stayed high. I expected algae and cycano. None yet in 6 months. I have had nice diatom blooms. Confirmed with my scope on sand and glass.

I have now started added some of my corals back to the tank from my previous dino tank. The dino cleared up after keeping my 20g fuge for remaining corals.

SO...HERE IS THE SAD NEWS

Today I rechecked the sand. It looks like a diatom but i can see fast movement. I zoomed in to the max and my heart sank. A NEW TINY DINO? I assume this is small cell amphidinium?

Please help while i get the siphon

 

[taricha]

I do see some small cell amphidinium.

 

[chinw76]

I have been battling dino for 2 years. Went from having them appear on the sand to my rock and gyres. I have even taken my fish out of my reefer 250 and dosed 5ml of Clorox every 12 hours for 3 days. That killed them for awhile. I ran carbon and put my fish back in. I seeded my tank with bacteria. Bleach didn't affect my corals or invertebrates. It would have killed my fish, they were in qt. So I raised nutrients, decreased my lighting to 6 hours a day. Dosing silica made it worse. I took a 1/2 gallon mason jar with a plastic lid, drilled 1/8" hole in the center, used hard tubing inside with air line coming out. I used a wand from a scraper and zip tie the tubing to it so it was 1/4" longer that the wand. I put 2ml of clorox in the mason jar with ro water. I put the mason jar above my tank and used gravity to pull the water threw the hose. I would move the hose in the sand back and forth and the bleach with ro water would kill them. I kept doing this on the sand and some rock every day. I ran carbon this whole time. All fish, inverters, shrimp were ok. I then got a 15 watt uv from brs and ran it in my display. It was working. I bought a 25 watt also from brs and plumbed so the pump went to the uv, then to my ats. My ats needs 350 gallons per hour and to kill dino on the 25 watt uv needed around 400 gallons. This would sterilize the dino and they would not grow on my algae. I then did a 3 day black out with Dr. Tims Refresh and then with the lights on dosed waste away for a few days. I would turn uv and skimmer off for 6 hours when dosing bacteria. During the time when dosing Refresh, I stired the sand bed so the dino would go into the water column and get the bacteria into the sand. I continue running lights for 6 hours a day, and now both uv sterilizers are running 24/7. I run Kalkwasser in my ato, keeps my ph between 8.2 and 8.5. I also started using today a 5 micron sediment filter at 300 gallons an hour to filter any out of the water. So far so good. It has to be attacked from many different angles. That is my story, and after 2 years, it looks good right now.

 

[chinw76]

I forgot to say that I also used a Turkey baster at night and blew them off the rocks into the water column for them to go into the uv. I was ready to leave the hobby, I attacked them with full force this time.

 

[Jason_1982]

@taricha

I figured id post a few better pictures to help ensure we have the ID. I still suspect Small Cell Amphidinium. This sample was from the brown algae inside my overflow box

Current plan is i suck out small amounts of sad as i see dino.

At night i have power heads that crank up at the bottom of the tank in homes that my uv and filter can catch free swimming.

My nutrients are running high. 15ppm nitrates and .2 phosphates

I dose silicate daily and see diatoms on the glass.

Overall the tank looks ok. But dinos are throughout in any sample

The tank is 6 months old. Generally i was good with nutrients except suddenly 1 week by phosphates tanked. Then boom. Dinos.

Any extra advice is always welcome.