Dino ID + Treatment

[RobertK]

I have 2 different ones, and they work differently

Can you elaborate on this? Which 2 do you have, and how do they differ?

 

[EnterName]

This is of course post hoc ergo propter hoc, as EnterName would say , and I have no control and no replica.

I see my pedantry hasn't gone unnoticed

I think it's fine sharing these kinds of ideas as long as no one is claiming they are the definitive proven answer.
So no worries I won't start an argument and I think your suggestion is fine and could be worth a try

 

[martin.a]

Can you elaborate on this? Which 2 do you have, and how do they differ?

Sure, what I meant was that the two I tried look different when added to the tank. The 'bone supplement' in jar seems finer, stays suspended longer, but is less 'sticky' to the rocks and sand. The brewing 'chalk' in the bag seems to may have larger particle size, makes the water look 'more milky', clears out faster, and sticks better to the substrate. The 'bone supplement' is US-made. The 'chalk' is Australian. Possibly one is ground and the other precipitated. Probably an expert would be able to distinguish just by viewing under x400 magnification.

Both work very good as flocculant - they make the water crystal clear. I also have not seen difference in livestock response - they basically ignore it, mostly. I have no idea if either is a more effective weapon in the dino-war. I would risk saying that if the actual mechanism is smothering, the 'chalk' may possibly be better.

Actually, proper Amphidinium-fighting experiments should not be that difficult to run. Still I hope I am never tempted to do them.

 

[martin.a]

I see my pedantry hasn't gone unnoticed

I think it's fine sharing these kinds of ideas as long as no one is claiming they are the definitive proven answer.
So no worries I won't start an argument and I think your suggestion is fine and could be worth a try

There is anecdotal evidence from other reefers that coral snow helps with dinos. So... maybe.... possibly... "A drowning man clutches at straws" as they say. (Although in my mother tongue we rather say 'clutches at razor blade' which may be a better illustration here. )

Anyway, to be clear: I can still easily see Amphidinium cells under scope. But there is much less of them, and the life in the aquarium returned back to normality, touch wood (or any other fate-improoving substance).

 

[EnterName]

Anyway, to be clear: I can still easily see Amphidinium cells under scope. But there is much less of them, and the life in the aquarium returned back to normality, touch wood (or any other fate-improoving substance).

Call count is what matters. After all, dinoflagellates are a part of the microbiology and food chain in our tanks, so they are always present in some form. As long as they don't start to cover everything it's fine. I'm glad you found something that appeared to work for you

 

[Mas0n]

Speaking of cell count! Check this out!

The last image at least shows some diatoms... I am not seeing the response I'd like to see. Even dosing 4ml of waterglass daily.

Starting to become really frustrated with this tank. Additionally, I have reduced feeding and my nitrates are through the roof. Which is what led to dosing vodka, and ultimately getting dinos in the first place.

 

[Mas0n]

There is anecdotal evidence from other reefers that coral snow helps with dinos. So... maybe.... possibly... "A drowning man clutches at straws" as they say. (Although in my mother tongue we rather say 'clutches at razor blade' which may be a better illustration here. )

Anyway, to be clear: I can still easily see Amphidinium cells under scope. But there is much less of them, and the life in the aquarium returned back to normality, touch wood (or any other fate-improoving substance).

Wooo! Sounds like your tank is headed in the right direction

 

[martin.a]

Speaking of cell count! Check this out!

The last image at least shows some diatoms... I am not seeing the response I'd like to see. Even dosing 4ml of waterglass daily.

Starting to become really frustrated with this tank. Additionally, I have reduced feeding and my nitrates are through the roof. Which is what led to dosing vodka, and ultimately getting dinos in the first place.

Try not to be frustrated. It's a war of attrition. We need to keep our morale high, even though nothing was able to eliminate those jerks for over half a billion years. We can do it.

My frustration got lower when I stopped those tedious 'dirty' chores like vacuuming, blasting, or brushing, or water changing, which seemed to be totally ineffective (including blackout). I could not stop UV sweeping as I still have not get that naked UV lamp needed for it. Actually, I did: First one was for 110V, second was cracked, and waiting for third. When I say 'frustration got lower', I mean 'frustration got replaced with depression'. Less anxiety anyway.

I keep silicates between 1 and 2 ppm and I can hardly see any diatoms. But I can see steady consumption of silicates. Probably all those nice siliceous sponges are the sink.

I was dosing vodka to my older 120L tank when it was still very young. One wise man here said its a bad idea. Next day I had cyano all over. Must be coincidence. But I did not touch any alcohol since. I still believe in vodka, I am only to follow the old saying that vodka is good only when body and mind are healthy, meaning tank is mature and in good state.

 

[Mas0n]

Try not to be frustrated. It's a war of attrition. We need to keep our morale high, even though nothing was able to eliminate those jerks for over half a billion years. We can do it.

My frustration got lower when I stopped those tedious 'dirty' chores like vacuuming, blasting, or brushing, or water changing, which seemed to be totally ineffective (including blackout). I could not stop UV sweeping as I still have not get that naked UV lamp needed for it. Actually, I did: First one was for 110V, second was cracked, and waiting for third. When I say 'frustration got lower', I mean 'frustration got replaced with depression'. Less anxiety anyway.

I keep silicates between 1 and 2 ppm and I can hardly see any diatoms. But I can see steady consumption of silicates. Probably all those nice siliceous sponges are the sink.

I was dosing vodka to my older 120L tank when it was still very young. One wise man here said its a bad idea. Next day I had cyano all over. Must be coincidence. But I did not touch any alcohol since. I still believe in vodka, I am only to follow the old saying that vodka is good only when body and mind are healthy, meaning tank is mature and in good state.

Thank you! I am stopping the tedious chores as well. I will continue to dose Silicate though.

I actually just started a little experiment that I have been thinking about lately. I took 2 cups of sand from my old established reef and poured it on top of some of the trouble spots in this tank. Not just the top layer of sand either, the nasty mucky bottom layer too! We'll see how it pans out.

 

[Mas0n]

Can you tell where I added the sand? Ha!

 

[martin.a]

Wooo! Sounds like your tank is headed in the right direction

I hope so, I hope so. I can still see light brown 'dusting' on the sand present only during day time. Microscopy confirms LC Amphidinium. But that's it. Two days ago I vacuumed last more pronounced brown spot on the sand and it has not come back since. In the past it would be back next morning. No more visible dinos on rocks, snail shells, glass... it was covering everything before.

I keep light very low. My A8SE are at 10% blues and 5-7% other spectra. (x5 A8SE over 1.5m long tank). Light is on for 7 hours. The 7th hour was added very recently. This is enough to keep the nem happy, but coraline and GSP stalled.

CUC works hard and does not die.

There is hope. Hang on there.

 

[martin.a]

Can you tell where I added the sand? Ha!

Hmm.... tricky one.... hmm...

 

[martin.a]

Hmm.... tricky one.... hmm...

BTW, how long since you put the new-old sand in there?

 

[Mas0n]

I hope so, I hope so. I can still see light brown 'dusting' on the sand present only during day time. Microscopy confirms LC Amphidinium. But that's it. Two days ago I vacuumed last more pronounced brown spot on the sand and it has not come back since. In the past it would be back next morning. No more visible dinos on rocks, snail shells, glass... it was covering everything before.

I keep light very low. My A8SE are at 10% blues and 5-7% other spectra. (x5 A8SE over 1.5m long tank). Light is on for 7 hours. The 7th hour was added very recently. This is enough to keep the nem happy, but coraline and GSP stalled.

CUC works hard and does not die.

There is hope. Hang on there.

Sounds like great progress. Did lowering the light help significantly?

 

[Mas0n]

BTW, how long since you put the new-old sand in there?

About 15 minutes.

Maybe when I check on the tank before lights out everything will be perfect.

 

[martin.a]

Try not to be frustrated. It's a war of attrition. We need to keep our morale high, even though nothing was able to eliminate those jerks for over half a billion years. We can do it.

My frustration got lower when I stopped those tedious 'dirty' chores like vacuuming, blasting, or brushing, or water changing, which seemed to be totally ineffective (including blackout). I could not stop UV sweeping as I still have not get that naked UV lamp needed for it. Actually, I did: First one was for 110V, second was cracked, and waiting for third. When I say 'frustration got lower', I mean 'frustration got replaced with depression'. Less anxiety anyway.

I keep silicates between 1 and 2 ppm and I can hardly see any diatoms. But I can see steady consumption of silicates. Probably all those nice siliceous sponges are the sink.

I was dosing vodka to my older 120L tank when it was still very young. One wise man here said its a bad idea. Next day I had cyano all over. Must be coincidence. But I did not touch any alcohol since. I still believe in vodka, I am only to follow the old saying that vodka is good only when body and mind are healthy, meaning tank is mature and in good state.

Off topic: I wrote 'eliminate those b@stards' (correctly spelled) which was automatically converted into 'eliminate those jerks'. Does anybody know why @REEF2REEF is against people who were born outside of marriage?

 

[martin.a]

Sounds like great progress. Did lowering the light help significantly?

I just don't know. I was like that cartoon witch trowing all kind of things into the cauldron until it finally went bum! and started glowing. All together made a difference. I still do not know if this improvement is persistent.

My reasoning was that photosynthesis seems to be the main driver in Amphidinium outbreaks. So, lowering the light, lowers their ability to proliferate and prosper. It is like... cancer cells win because they can utilize the nutrients and proliferate faster than normal cells. That's why hemo and radio therapies help. They kill all cells, but those which proliferate faster get more affected. (Humongous and almost unacceptable simplification of course.) So, the idea is to drive the organism (or tissue) to near death hoping that the cancer cells die before the normal cells do. Overdosing the treatment is not a good idea here. I am applying this logic to the aquarium ecosystem.

 

[martin.a]

About 15 minutes.

Maybe when I check on the tank before lights out everything will be perfect.

Fingers crossed! Have you considered making a larger mound? The bacteria in the grafted sand got shocked by sudden change in environment, and might mostly died or got overwhelmed. A large, more substantial mound would help to preserve more of the original environment giving the bacteria more time to adapt. And simply deliver more of them.

 

[Mas0n]

Fingers crossed! Have you considered making a larger mound? The bacteria in the grafted sand got shocked by sudden change in environment, and might mostly died or got overwhelmed. A large, more substantial mound would help to preserve more of the original environment giving the bacteria more time to adapt. And simply deliver more of them.

Good point, if I add more sand I will do that. I basically did two scoops here, one up front and one off on the left side.