Dino Identification

[saltyhog]

I've not seen much success with blackouts (not practical with corals...but you don't have any) or UV with Prorocentrum. If you choose to use silicate dosing (what I would recommend), don't use SpongExcel. It's way too dilute to be a practical solution. I would use water glass (36-41% sodium silicate). Dose 0.2 ml/15 gallons of system volume daily. Be sure to dilute it with a good amount of RO/DI water and add it slowly to a high flow area(like right in front of a power head). You can get water glass from Loud Wolf or Lynn's on Amazon very inexpensively.

It takes time, especially with Prorocentrum but it will work.

 

[testuser]

I've not seen much success with blackouts (not practical with corals...but you don't have any) or UV with Prorocentrum. If you choose to use silicate dosing (what I would recommend), don't use SpongExcel. It's way too dilute to be a practical solution. I would use water glass (36-41% sodium silicate). Dose 0.2 ml/15 gallons of system volume daily. Be sure to dilute it with a good amount of RO/DI water and add it slowly to a high flow area(like right in front of a power head). You can get water glass from Loud Wolf or Lynn's on Amazon very inexpensively.

It takes time, especially with Prorocentrum but it will work.

I already ordered the other, but will continue the silicate route and look into getting Loud Wolf as well (though it looked like it takes a while to get from Amazon anyway).

Do you concur that per my most recent photos that it looks to be Prorocentrum? I stated in that same reply that unfortunately, I do have corals now, and am trying to be more careful when battling the dinos.

Simultaneously, while dosing silicate, do you also recommend attempting to raise the phosphate level? It's basically 0 after 24hrs, no matter how much I dose. Is it worth it to keep trying anyway?

 

[BradVol]

Simultaneously, while dosing silicate, do you also recommend attempting to raise the phosphate level? It's basically 0 after 24hrs, no matter how much I dose. Is it worth it to keep trying anyway?

What are you using to get your microscopic photos? They look great, even if they're of something undesirable.

Everything I've seen is that none of the methods will work until you can keep your nitrate and phosphate above 0. You may need to keep dosing more. Or split the doses into 2 or 4 times a day. But as long as the dinos are consuming all the nutrients from the water, the good stuff doesn't stand a chance to get established enough to take over.

You didn't mention what phosphate test you're using. Is it an accurate one like a Hanna ULR?

Maybe try dosing, waiting 30 minutes for it to spread, test, wait 6 hours and test again. That would give you an idea of consumption rate. You really have no idea until you get 2 non 0 tests.

But you have to find a way to get it above zero. You mentioned it gets worse when you dose. That makes sense if you dose some to feed the dinos but not enough to keep some in the water column for healthy bacteria to start multiplying. It's a worse before it gets better thing. You just haven't made it over the tipping point yet where you can keep phosphate above zero for the tank to begin to achieve a healthy balance.

 

[testuser]

What are you using to get your microscopic photos? They look great, even if they're of something undesirable.

Everything I've seen is that none of the methods will work until you can keep your nitrate and phosphate above 0. You may need to keep dosing more. Or split the doses into 2 or 4 times a day. But as long as the dinos are consuming all the nutrients from the water, the good stuff doesn't stand a chance to get established enough to take over.

You didn't mention what phosphate test you're using. Is it an accurate one like a Hanna ULR?

Maybe try dosing, waiting 30 minutes for it to spread, test, wait 6 hours and test again. That would give you an idea of consumption rate. You really have no idea until you get 2 non 0 tests.

But you have to find a way to get it above zero. You mentioned it gets worse when you dose. That makes sense if you dose some to feed the dinos but not enough to keep some in the water column for healthy bacteria to start multiplying. It's a worse before it gets better thing. You just haven't made it over the tipping point yet where you can keep phosphate above zero for the tank to begin to achieve a healthy balance.

Thanks! The microscope that I got can be found here: (just unpause AdBlock if you have it to see the link). Grant it, the quality of the images would be much better if I took the videos and pictures from the device itself via the SD card (this was only with my phone, so lower quality).

Solid advice about the phosphates. I'm going to test multiple times throughout the day and setup the doser to work multiple times a day if possible. I'm using Salifert for testing phosphates. I've seen it show up with shades of blue before, so I think it's okay to start with that at least. As far as nitrates go, that seems to be fairly easy to maintain.

I'll figure out the pattern of dosing spread throughout the day to constantly keep it elevated to at least 0.05 (but I've read that 0.1 is ideal in these cases).

 

[BradVol]

Solid advice about the phosphates. I'm going to test multiple times throughout the day and setup the doser to work multiple times a day if possible. I'm using Salifert for testing phosphates. I've seen it show up with shades of blue before, so I think it's okay to start with that at least. As far as nitrates go, that seems to be fairly easy to maintain.

I'll figure out the pattern of dosing spread throughout the day to constantly keep it elevated to at least 0.05 (but I've read that 0.1 is ideal in these cases).

The Salifert should be good enough to tell you when you're not zero. That's good enough for now. But I wouldn't rely on the actual number. Right now you just need to get above zero and maintain there.

Someone said this about checking if you're above zero in another thread:
I use the salifert po4 test kit.
Distinguishing zero from 0.03 is easy.
I found that using a second vial with tank water in it as a comparison to the test vial solution clearly diferenciates zero from 0.03. Or in other words, the test solution i thought was crystal clear actually had a blue tint when compared to the second vial.

If you can swing it, the Hanna ULR checker is far better. Model 736. That's the only way to really dial it in. It's accuracy is 0.015ppm.

 

[testuser]

The Salifert should be good enough to tell you when you're not zero. That's good enough for now. But I wouldn't rely on the actual number. Right now you just need to get above zero and maintain there.

Someone said this about checking if you're above zero in another thread:
I use the salifert po4 test kit.
Distinguishing zero from 0.03 is easy.
I found that using a second vial with tank water in it as a comparison to the test vial solution clearly diferenciates zero from 0.03. Or in other words, the test solution i thought was crystal clear actually had a blue tint when compared to the second vial.

If you can swing it, the Hanna ULR checker is far better. Model 736. That's the only way to really dial it in. It's accuracy is 0.015ppm.

Makes sense to me! For the time being, I'll stick with the Salifert, but when I need to get a better accuracy once I'm reading above zero, I think that I definitely need to actually invest in a Hanna ULR.

I tested a few hours later and I still have a positive reading with phosphates, but will need to test again this afternoon and gauge if I need to dose again. I definitely need to buy a lot more NeoPhos haha, I just don't foresee this tank not needing it in the future.

 

[BradVol]

Makes sense to me! For the time being, I'll stick with the Salifert, but when I need to get a better accuracy once I'm reading above zero, I think that I definitely need to actually invest in a Hanna ULR.

I tested a few hours later and I still have a positive reading with phosphates, but will need to test again this afternoon and gauge if I need to dose again. I definitely need to buy a lot more NeoPhos haha, I just don't foresee this tank not needing it in the future.

Do you have RO water? I would assume so. But if so you can order some trisodium phosphate and mix it up yourself. It was $9 for more than I'll need in a lifetime on eBay. Make sure to get food grade.

 

[testuser]

Do you have RO water? I would assume so. But if so you can order some trisodium phosphate and mix it up yourself. It was $9 for more than I'll need in a lifetime on eBay. Make sure to get food grade.

I have RODI water, yeah. Fair, when I run out of the other (currently dosing 8ml/day but will probably double it with NeoPhos), I'll order some of that from instead. If you happen to have a link from a seller that you like, I'd gladly take it!

 

[BradVol]

I have RODI water, yeah. Fair, when I run out of the other (currently dosing 8ml/day but will probably double it with NeoPhos), I'll order some of that from instead. If you happen to have a link from a seller that you like, I'd gladly take it!

Here you go:

Trisodium Phosphate 8 Oz Total (2 Bottles) Food Grade Fine Crystals USA SELLER | eBay

Trisodium Phosphate. The item for sale is 8 Ounces (by weight) of Trisodium Phosphate. NOTE: Concentrated solutions of Trisodium Phosphate are very caustic and can cause burns. Fine Crystals. • Food Additive.

www.ebay.com

 

[testuser]

Here you go:

Trisodium Phosphate 8 Oz Total (2 Bottles) Food Grade Fine Crystals USA SELLER | eBay

Trisodium Phosphate. The item for sale is 8 Ounces (by weight) of Trisodium Phosphate. NOTE: Concentrated solutions of Trisodium Phosphate are very caustic and can cause burns. Fine Crystals. • Food Additive.

www.ebay.com

Perfect, thank you very much! I'll keep this thread up to date as to how my progress goes. Here's hoping to consistently above 0 phosphates and diatoms to outcompete the proro dinos!

 

[Dburr1014]

Jebao has a uv with no pump that very inexpensive. It worked well for my dinos but I wouldn't want to run that brand 24/7 after dinos.

I'm a firm believer that all dinos can be forced in the water colunm.
With blackouts, h2o2 dosing, stirring the bed.

Definatly keep up the po4 dosing.

Good luck!

 

[testuser]

Jebao has a uv with no pump that very inexpensive. It worked well for my dinos but I wouldn't want to run that brand 24/7 after dinos.

I'm a firm believer that all dinos can be forced in the water colunm.
With blackouts, h2o2 dosing, stirring the bed.

Definatly keep up the po4 dosing.

Good luck!

Thank you! I do have a green machine, but will go the silicates route since the other method failed for me after introducing new corals.

Any reason why not to leave a UV on 24/7 as a general deterrent, or just specifically that Jebao version?

 

[Dburr1014]

Thank you! I do have a green machine, but will go the silicates route since the other method failed for me after introducing new corals.

Any reason why not to leave a UV on 24/7 as a general deterrent, or just specifically that Jebao version?

The jebao gets a black slime if you clean it. Some think it's the plastic breaking down.

 

[testuser]

The jebao gets a black slime if you clean it. Some think it's the plastic breaking down.

Ooooof, alright. Hopefully that's limited to the Jebao. I'll check the green machine periodically then.

 

[saltyhog]

I already ordered the other, but will continue the silicate route and look into getting Loud Wolf as well (though it looked like it takes a while to get from Amazon anyway).

Do you concur that per my most recent photos that it looks to be Prorocentrum? I stated in that same reply that unfortunately, I do have corals now, and am trying to be more careful when battling the dinos.

Simultaneously, while dosing silicate, do you also recommend attempting to raise the phosphate level? It's basically 0 after 24hrs, no matter how much I dose. Is it worth it to keep trying anyway?

Yes, agree it's Prorocentrum. Definitely is wise to get your PO4 up. I like to aim for a 100:1 NO3 to PO4 ratio. I.E. if your NO3 is 10, aim for 0.1 for your PO4 level.

One word of caution. While dosing silicate and as long as the silicate level is elevated, you can't use Hanna to check phosphate. It will be falsely elevated significantly.

What are you using to dose PO4. I found Seachem Flourish Phosphate to be a little more effective for me.

 

[BradVol]

What are you using to dose PO4. I found Seachem Flourish Phosphate to be a little more effective for me.

I've heard the iron in that can encourage the dinos. Any experience with that?

 

[saltyhog]

I've heard the iron in that can encourage the dinos. Any experience with that?

Iron in Seachem's PO4 supplement? I've not ever heard of that. Nothing listed in the ingredients other than potassium phosphate.

 

[BradVol]

Iron in Seachem's PO4 supplement? I've not ever heard of that. Nothing listed in the ingredients other than potassium phosphate.

You're right. I was looking at the wrong Flourish label.

 

[testuser]

Yes, agree it's Prorocentrum. Definitely is wise to get your PO4 up. I like to aim for a 100:1 NO3 to PO4 ratio. I.E. if your NO3 is 10, aim for 0.1 for your PO4 level.

One word of caution. While dosing silicate and as long as the silicate level is elevated, you can't use Hanna to check phosphate. It will be falsely elevated significantly.

What are you using to dose PO4. I found Seachem Flourish Phosphate to be a little more effective for me.

I'm dosing with NeoPhos for phosphates and I finally got a good cadence with dosing now and it's constantly slightly visible per Salifert. I'm just in the wait and see spot now while the ratio of nitrates to phosphates is right, I'm dosing silicates in the meantime, waiting...