Dinoflagella war zone, the aftermath.

[George03]

I thought I would just post up for general interest. One month old JBJ AIO 25. Picts tell 1000 words so here we are. If y journal is readable and of interest that is great! Here is my first crash recovery. Basically while I was dialing in the foundation, the organics got away from me, then hit like a ton of bricks. Dino disaster strike, and my solution set.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

I thought I would just post up for general interest. One month old JBJ AIO 25. Picts tell 1000 words so here we are. If y journal is readable and of interest that is great! Here is my first crash recovery. Basically while I was dialing in the foundation, the organics got away from me, then hit like a ton of bricks. Dino disaster strike, and my solution set.

Glad you are recovering from the dreaded dinos!

 

[George03]

Thanks. I am vigilant and they, dinos are not going down without a fight. I have logged my journal, but the general strategy is adding bio load with 3 mollies in my 25g with the clowns and goby. I acclimated these brackish fish over 3 days to salt. And I say this as a former FW tank dad, I don't think the literature for reliant mixed/frag reef newbies out there speaks to a real tank cycle, not the mini puff cycle with chemicals. I am reliant on chems for now but ultimately I think this is the way to build maturity. Using RAZOR and H2O2 and that seems to be hold them back. Diatoms making an entrance, welcome sight. My ammonia has spiked (closely monitored) and a real load is on the beneficial bacts to fill out. I am going to start turning down the fever pitch on the temp to nominal 76 from 80. reduce light, my genopora got visited by an urchin and is still shy. The urchin died.

 

[Lavey29]

A one month old tank doesn't get dinos. Did you ID this algae with a cheap microscope? Looks like new tank diatoms to me especially with all the white light you are using.

 

[George03]

Also as to why NOPOX is in the mix, is that it works to bring down NO3 and PO4 slowly, so in order to induce a ratio of 10-15 NO3 and .03-.05 PO4 I want to bring phosphate down, but keep the current level on Nitrate so I add a compensation dose. For now, until I can ween it to a natural balance. Imagine a teeter totter with NOPOX as gravity. I am thinking about dosing H2O2 as a long term additive for algea control, but I know there are other strategies too.

 

[George03]

A one month old tank doesn't get dinos. Did you ID this algae with a cheap microscope? Looks like new tank diatoms to me especially with all the white light you are using.

I meant to correct its 2 1/2 months now. and I dont have the scope yet, AmScope. White light for the photo op only. What you are seeing is the dead strands, they look like they have a head and a long tail, when attached to the glass. What you are seeing on the pump is dead ones. I have seen the bubbles tell tale forming as well on the pump black surface.

 

[George03]

I thought I would just post up for general interest. One month old JBJ AIO 25. Picts tell 1000 words so here we are. If y journal is readable and of interest that is great! Here is my first crash recovery. Basically while I was dialing in the foundation, the organics got away from me, then hit like a ton of bricks. Dino disaster strike, and my solution set.

Looks like the edit is locked, Correction here is the birthdate.

 

[Lavey29]

I meant to correct its 2 1/2 months now. and I dont have the scope yet, AmScope. White light for the photo op only. What you are seeing is the dead strands, they look like they have a head and a long tail, when attached to the glass. What you are seeing on the pump is dead ones. I have seen the bubbles tell tale forming as well on the pump black surface.

Diatoms get bubbles and strands to in severe instances. If you didn't ID it then you don't know what it is and dinos don't hit 2 month tanks either. Do you use RODI? Silicates in new tank sand cause diatoms which typically starts around the 1 to 2 month mark when lights are on. They go away on their own in some weeks providing that you are not introducing more silicate into your tank.

 

[George03]

yes everything is done clinically correctly to the best of my amateur ability (dedicated hobbyist), and well informed by BRS vids and reviews, other research, and FW experience as I tend to jump in on new projects with enthusiasm. I source all my water from the LFS, easy-aquariums in NH. I have a RODI I haven't set up yet, mostly b/c the LFS is so convenient. Cost isn't much of an issue so I source the best brands, i.e. redsea etc. Being a small tank, I am well past the start up expense by now. I have dose heads got for half price for starters, Sentia. I think my parameters are a good indicator,, you don't seem to agree. Yes, all the live stock is from the same store, and they are always attending their systems. The "subject" thing fits all the descriptions I have found, w/o the benefit of a microscope, but hopefully we can see, but I am looking for an ebay camera, too for the pxls I would like to have. The best I could describe it as a single strand like brown hair up to 5-6 inches, and they appeared suddenly almost makes me think they emerge from the sand media or else grow explosively in hours, pink live fuji. I have seen them 5-6 inches long, with what looks like a tiny head, kind of oval and lighter in color, could say whiteish. attaches to everything but the glass is opportunistic it seems. nothing today, but if one shows up, I will do my best to get some picts. I have seen the bubbles that I assume are spores, and also have seen it as a tangled blob strand on livestock. The mucus tends to collect floaters, which appear as strands. I brush that off with my nightly sand stir and dose for lights out. So far..its not over whelming, just at the daily chore level. I now have what looks like brown dust on the sand bed, which I am assuming is diatoms, a sign that nutrients are no longer crashed. and that is actually the case, as measured. so I am patiently waiting for see where the nutrients want to go and take it from there. I do appreciate the feedback.

 

[BryanM]

I would 100% set up that RODI. I distrust any water that isn't made by myself.... To me it is the heartbeat of our reefs.

 

[George03]

It occurs to me that it is entirely possible that it could also be another invader! but the dinos are hard to miss.

 

[George03]

I would 100% set up that RODI. I distrust any water that isn't made by myself.... To me it is the heartbeat of our reefs.

eventually, I will, and with increments change over.

 

[George03]

That whole strand is the thing. I couldn't get the head in focus, but it looks here like it exploded, and if that was the H2O2, I am amazed. Its dead. Below that in the red LPS is what I think is dino, it has the shape of the flaggelate, as best as I can see. The sand dust I am assuming is diatoms, not really concerned as yet. Weird creature going out of the sand. Molly the fish. I have a suspicion things came in on that rock really dirty with the small red daisies. Last iodine wash loosened a small worm with red tips.

 

[Lavey29]

Simple Google search:

Diatoms (a member of the algae class Bacillariophyceae) appear as yellow-green or brown spots and/or as a stringy brown mass


You ain't got dinos in a new tank with pearly white sand and rocks. Please note also that your tank will experience a variety of ugly phases throughout the first year.

 

[George03]

Yes, I appreciate that aspect. It wasn't pearly during the outbreak. Things are hard to translate in text, so I rely on pictures. These are new raw rocks so I could at least remove a variable and have a place for the corals. Otherwise, it would be a big brown mass of yuk by now. But in any case, I appreciate the feedback, I am more than anticipating this does eventually balance out and clears up!

 

[George03]

After some more thought, and research after the reading challenges of correct ID of this pest, I have come to the conclusion this thing is a larva, which in my 'opinion', until I prove myself wrong again, is a precursor for a full blown dino outbreak. I say this emphasizing the multi-phototropic nature of the dino, and it occurs right at the emphasize 0 nutrient crash I recorded and double checked. I know I noticed in retrospect the characteristics, especially the bubble nature at its very beginning to in getting a foothold. The tip on the left is clearly an attachment object of some sort. Neither of the photoplanton dinos or diatoms, extend, they are microscopic and can form chain colonies resembling a strand. But nothing I have found so far, suggest this is an actual tom or dino. It Must be a precursor to spread the colonies, but since I see the classic brown dust After dosing N/P, I still hypothesize it is dino based. More to come. possibly, unless I kill it first.

 

[brandon429]

@Dan_P wanted to bring you over to this for one single clue sentence in the description: the ammonia rose.

None of this is ammonia- generating activity, it's not stored in a shallow unaged sandbed, no way.


When I mention unknown metabolites, from materials handling and detritus clouding tripping up colorimetric ammonia kits / non digital threads like this are where the patterns come from. Something ammonia- like caused the spike. On a seneye it would have held consistent, and any spike resolved in 5 mins max... then we'd still be searching for the storage zone in the sand somehow.

Instead of forcing the truth to be a location of ammonia, in that hardscape in order to explain this spike above steady state, i refute the test kit fully.

@George03 what was your ammonia levels before the work

What test kit do you have for ammonia

What is the level now, and most importantly (since we already know how long free ammonia floats around unused in a hungry reef tank): how long did that claimed spike hold? Two days, two hours?

*reason for this post: Dan and I chat about cycling activity, this clue above is about a cycled tank becoming weak, seemingly, then rebounding back.

I claim no reef tank ever has a weak ammonia control phase without a clear, standout cause in each description but this is very very common in reefing. These issues lead to cycle problem posts, so I study them when they're mentioned in passing.

 

[George03]

Yeah, I am sorry a lot is being lost in the translation. So its my best effort is all I can do. I put an image of my parameters as the last screen shot in my OP. I organically raised ammonia with the addition of 3 new acclimated mollies b/c I know they pee a lot. 5 fish in total now as one of the mollies, got attached onto the pressure equalizer while she was sleeping, in the AIO last night. My reflection is people who are well intentioned and respected as more advanced than I are not for what ever reason taking in all the facts as I am presenting them. Its part of how this thread is going, not faulting anyone. The whole key to this is I can see how I "lost", the race to stabablize the tank, by being caught off guard on the nutriants. THe rest is theory and research on what I actually have, but either way it is under some 'control'. I found this interesting, and I am attaching images of this growth. It is a strand with a corpusle, I did my best cam shot. The fish tugged on it and this white cluster falls off. I just wonder what it could be. There are a few dead ones floating around which I attribute to H2O2 dosing. 1ml/10G. I appreciate the feedback given.

 

[Dan_P]

@Dan_P wanted to bring you over to this for one single clue sentence in the description: the ammonia rose.

None of this is ammonia- generating activity, it's not stored in a shallow unaged sandbed, no way.


When I mention unknown metabolites, from materials handling and detritus clouding tripping up colorimetric ammonia kits / non digital threads like this are where the patterns come from. Something ammonia- like caused the spike. On a seneye it would have held consistent, and any spike resolved in 5 mins max... then we'd still be searching for the storage zone in the sand somehow.

Instead of forcing the truth to be a location of ammonia, in that hardscape in order to explain this spike above steady state, i refute the test kit fully.

@George03 what was your ammonia levels before the work

What test kit do you have for ammonia

What is the level now, and most importantly (since we already know how long free ammonia floats around unused in a hungry reef tank): how long did that claimed spike hold? Two days, two hours?

*reason for this post: Dan and I chat about cycling activity, this clue above is about a cycled tank becoming weak, seemingly, then rebounding back.

I claim no reef tank ever has a weak ammonia control phase without a clear, standout cause in each description but this is very very common in reefing. These issues lead to cycle problem posts, so I study them when they're mentioned in passing.

I see your point. Until we find out what ammonia test was used, how much the ammonia increased (folks use “spike” for many different reasons), and was the OP dosing NOPOX just before the spike, we will need to wait before conjecturing.

 

[brandon429]

its any kit though, any level reported wont change my take because we literally see all levels reported in cycle analysis threads, from the non seneye kits. am claiming we have seneye data from many systems and they never display this physicality. I'm claiming we can tell the respondent more about their ammonia than they can tell us, not having access to the seneye/



at no time does a seneye in a reef tank show these trends, post cycle for sure. I've never seen one show them pre cycle completion either, on seneye.

I wish we could get ten people w seneyes to stir up lightly the sand and see if a sustain spike happens. even if this is hanna: I wouldnt think its real nh3 spiking