Dinoflagella war zone, the aftermath.

[George03]

I see your point. Until we find out what ammonia test was used, how much the ammonia increased (folks use “spike” for many different reasons), and was the OP dosing NOPOX just before the spike, we will need to wait before conjecturing.

I use the Redsea foundations and the other one with all the nutrient tests so in that image of my chart is all redsea testing. I have gone to Hanna for the phosphate i trust it, the others in the full kit Hannas not so much, waiting on a Hanna NO3 checker seems it got good reviews. No there was nothing to POX before the crash. So after I read and studied up on its stated purpose, to 'manage" NO and PO ratios, I started using it to see how it mananges the direct NO and PO doses from NYOS, at conservative doses. The ecosystem should be starting to provide that organcally now. Chems were just an emergency response. Like IV.

 

[brandon429]

I have a thread where for nine pages people with running reefs thought red sea ammonia indicated a spike. I know you didn't react that way at all/smooth/it was just such an impactful clue to use for other posts.

thanks tons for responding@!@!

*lots of predictions can be made from that one sentence, where it appears in posts.
thanks tons for input G

those are good details above.

the spike only was tested once that day assuming?

*you beat/suppressed one the hardest invasions in reefing, well done.

 

[brandon429]

that one tiny blip you marked, and looked past, has caused pages of destruction reactions from the masses no joke. you must have been applying updated cycling science/not fearing ammonia/because you weren't prompted to add six bottle of protective cycling bac, that's what the masses do any time a test kit shows nonstandard ammonia readings. its very new to not react much at all to it, which was the correct move.

do u think the spike lasted most of the day> did u retest it other than just that once

 

[brandon429]

There is no bacterial suppression here even if carbon is added, or withheld, there's carbon stores all over this tank by rule in the waste holdings, uneaten food microparticles etc, held in rock crevices and in between sand grains. But those aren't stores of free ammonia like shale deposits, but they are sufficient to sustain lots of aerobes

that's my intuit/ wanted Dan to be on the lookout for pathways in future works. It may turn out false, wanted to show the clues that prompted this perspective.

There is no ammonia spike option for this tank, firm bet based on presentation layout.

 

[George03]

Thanks everyone for the encouragement. I am happy to report, things appear in full recovery mode. Some observations I would like to drop in. Just suggestions, also based on going in with a LOT of information still processing on the science side of things.

This morning things appear "Improved" Last night was the first night I just let it be. we are all relieved :)

1. live rock, 8 lbs of super living fossil even though healthy in the LFS, has a Lot of occupants. They are going to do what they do given the opportunity. 8 lbs for 25 gallons is gonna cause issues. LFS store has a very hardy, and mature eco system, I should have known that just the nutrient balance was solid, and they only dose brightwell 2 part.

Listen to the LFS people. If they are skeptical (being honest) about adding to much too soon, it is for a reason. You will not know what that reason is. Forklifting a natural environment into a new water column is not going to work. Trust me.

2. small tank syndrome. I don't think is it. if you have a small tank, much much easier to manage and isolate things. small doesn't have to mean cheap. I have 2 more dosers coming for a total of 5. Three handle the alk/mg/ca. Cost is worth it for stability, given the multiples of expense going at a larger scale. Use the best gear available. I have about 10 devices on smart plugs, and the others have cloud access.

3. I advocate for a heavy cycling approach. I got trapped in the ULN theme. I advise a strong ammonia cycle. How you ask?

As part of animal husbandry, be prepared. I have a lot of other house pets also. Know thy pet. Living near Great Bay HN, its is popular for striper fishing. How I got the tip was the black mollies in my LFS frag display. Ah, these are brackish fish. some more reading and knowing you can practically drink the inner bay water fed by fresh water streams, striped bass and other ocean fish migrate (unwittingly with one of the strongest tidal river currents in the world) up the Piscataqua river. I made a bold move to acclimate mollies to the salt tank. This will provide a robust cycle. Recommend doing it first. before adding a livestock. Plus the mollies are actually curious and rove around looing for scraps and bits, I am not certain what they are foraging just yet. They are very peaceful and get along well with the clowns. Over 3 days, I let it sit over night at the midway 1.012, and was very nervous about the next jump to 1.022, and also working against ammonia in the small adoption tank. kept going, using tank water in the end, and letting the ATO dilute the host tank a bit, so to meet them at 1.022 then steadily normalize to 1.025/6

4. I documented the chem trails in one of the screenshots in the above posts. It was an emergent reaction, we are going for a'natural here eventually.

5. I counted no less than 4 hitchhickers, I think a brissle worm is in there too., Diatoms we can all agree, and they look so 'cute' in there now. A danged very aggressive strand colony, associated with ULN, which the clues point to DINOS, and read paragraph 1. Oversized LIVE rock in a new ULN tank, to me reads of the smoking gun here.

6. I replaced most of the live rock with dry rock. I have a relic rock I installed with the small corals, I know it likely also is a source of the foul play. I read enough were sudden issues emerge. If your plan was to stay as clean as possible forget about it. Something is going to get in your tank. Organic nutrients is the key, and if you don't want to potentially sacrifice display fish, Mollies and I read guppies are the best bet.

7. I will close with it was interesting and a lot of learning I wasn't expecting. There is a lot of mixed messaging on parameters. There are also specific varieties of tank goals. No one tank is the same as the next. Go slow, add some dirty stuff and survive that.

8. I happened on H202 as a defender of tanks. Its gotten mixed reviews. I will say, I believe, it is mostly responsible for the recovery, in terms of killing off the main threat, the "Strand". And very quickly too. I see literally no effect on the fish. I avoided water flow in to the AIO sump where I have cheato fuge. Even it did not seem to affect the cheato much, just to be safe. I also supplemented with RAZOR. These to together at full and double strength, seems to have been the victor, along with an emergency organics infusion.

9. Weak corals, I noticed something was up just before the "Strand" rolled into town. I believe that my research has revealed that these beautiful creatures and the ugly ones, have toxins. I think as the invasion and response, and the die off of these bad actors, has released toxins. The soft corals are reacting defensively, I think as time and water changes go on they will fully recover from toxin poisoning.

Thanks for reading.
George

 

[brandon429]

that lines up with about 18 years of online patterns Ive seen too. well said.
you need to get into the business of reaching out to dinos tanks by messaging and get them to work your fixes. its hard to get others to change the setup variables that prime for dinos but beneficial patterns emerge when you can

 

[George03]

that lines up with about 18 years of online patterns Ive seen too. well said.
you need to get into the business of reaching out to dinos tanks by messaging and get them to work your fixes. its hard to get others to change the setup variables that prime for dinos but beneficial patterns emerge when you can

Thank you for the glowing recommendation. I just wanted to add epilog, I just found aptasia that came in with my wife's, beatelgeus chair coral. iodined again at half time per my LFS, and found 2 small corpusles. I don't even know the names yet! I am going to enjoy watching out for a few weeks, but I think this myth is busted. And learning the species.

 

[George03]

Your looking for this, this is the source of the strands. SOB about 10 minutes after I stirred the Toms, this popped up it is vertically sticking out. Be very vigilant, they are very sneaky. I vacuumed it with a fluval water vac. I don't have my microscope yet, unfortunately. Still dosing H2O2, RAZOR, bypassing sump. Nutrients still settling, AMM, NO2, NO3 still elevated, PO4 coming down. Nothing new overnight. Mollies, everyone is ok. After my initial counterattack, as per my OP last week, I noticed these dead sticks all over the sand. In my first post pictures it seems like the stick colonies disintegrated after the kill dosing making them look like individual cells which could confuse them with diatoms. The major risk being "wait it out they go away".

 

[George03]

For anyone coming across this epilog, The answer to toxic algae is UV, just like the sun makes. Too little is gonna let the baddies thrive. I landed up with. Also note some toxic dinos are NOT easily identified with a microscope, I had https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlodinium a very aggressive toxic dino.

UV recipe.
2 flows at about 10 gallons per hour for each gallon of total tank size.
One flow in the sump, and on flow in the return, at 6 and 3 watts respectively for a total of .4 to .5 watts per total gallons. Full time. Wet skim half time at night.