Discontinued Eshopps Cube Medium Refugium Sump

William Robinson · Feb 19, 2020

First off, I noticed this morning the sump has been discontinued on BRS...
I got to looking at my sump last night at the flow rates through the chambers. Mind you my sock area is almost impossible to see without using a camera so I haven't noticed this until I noticed my water was looking a little cloudy/dirty. I made a mistake when I purchased my return pump. I let the store piece the new system together for me and didn't really pay too much attention as I've been shopping there for quite a few years now. Eshopps made a huge error by not either making a minimum flow rate requirement to the sump or an adjustable type "fins or gate" into the refugium area. I am using a Sicce 2.0 pump which is 568gph which is very marginal for the system as is BUT the flow into the sump is not enough that it causes water to rise and spill over into the sock area, instead it goes to the path of least resistance which is into the refugium area.. If I had to guess 95% of all of my flow is through the refugium instead of my sock! So not being able to close up those slots flowing into the refugium area is making it not build up enough pressure to spill into the sock area first or more easily channeling most of the water that way... I'm not exactly sure what to do about it yet, I know I need to restrict that flow into the refugium but how is the question I will figure out this evening. Second I need to order a replacement pump, DC most likely so I can crank it up to get the flow right.
IMO - Eshopps made a mistake by not saying what the minimum required flow was going into the sump for the design to function as intended and needs to be making a piece to send out to people to correct this issue.

Blue Spot Octopus · Feb 20, 2020

I have the Eshoop Nano and yes there are issues with it. Can you remove your sump and re set up a mock up and see exactly how it works, it is nearly impossible to see due to the design or at least mine is. If you can do the remote you can set up a DC pump and run it with different speeds.

William Robinson · Feb 20, 2020

Blue Spot Octopus said:
I have the Eshoop Nano and yes there are issues with it. Can you remove your sump and re set up a mock up and see exactly how it works, it is nearly impossible to see due to the design or at least mine is. If you can do the remote you can set up a DC pump and run it with different speeds.

Unfortunately I can not, I have a 60g rimless cube with a stand built to match the foot print of the tank. Its really the only reason I went with this sump. So angry about this because I literally just purchased this just over a month ago now. They knew then there was an issue and were selling down their stock levels before slapping on the "Discontinued" label.
I am thinking about doing a warranty claim based on the fact it does not operate as described and is a manufacture defect. Meets all the criteria in the warranty, only issue is I need to tear my tank down to get the sump out of the back of the stand which may not be that big of a deal considering the headache this thing may be. I am ordering the DC pump tomorrow and will try the flow rate changes and if that doesn't correct it i will decide from there.

Water Dog · Feb 20, 2020

Definitely increase the flow with a bigger pump. The Sicce 2.0 at 568 gph is probably pushing less than 150 gph once you factor in head pressure back up to your tank. For reference, I’m using a Sicce ADV 5.5 (throttled back 10% with a valve) rated at 1400 gph for my 57 gallon tank.

William Robinson · Feb 20, 2020

Water Dog said:
Definitely increase the flow with a bigger pump. The Sicce 2.0 at 568 gph is probably pushing less than 150 gph once you factor in head pressure back up to your tank. For reference, I’m using a Sicce ADV 5.5 (throttled back 10% with a valve) rated at 1400 gph for my 57 gallon tank.

I know the pump is small as I was saying in my original post. This is a new tank so setup so the DC pump I am installing is not here yet. I actually don't prefer Sicce as it seems the quality has gone down on the quality control. I've had to return a few too many in the past year for noise and vibrations. Anyhow, the complaint is that the design is flawed and/or the required information as far as gph through the sump is not stated thus failing the customer. It should state a minimum flow rate so that an appropriate pump may be matched. I would have selected my own but time was of the essence the night I picked up the system and did the purchase by phone before driving down to the store to pick it up.
But calculated flow rate with head height, plumbing and all is 370gph which is sad. Believe me, I had a talk with the guy at the store once I realized what had happened.

Water Dog · Feb 20, 2020

Forgive me... So you know the pump is too small, you let your LFS pick a pump that is too small in general for a a tank of your size regardless of sump design, and it still Eshopps fault!?! Sheesh. If anything, the fault should be on your LFS for selling you and undersized pump for a 60 gallon tank.

William Robinson · Feb 20, 2020

Water Dog said:
Forgive me... So you know the pump is too small, you let your LFS pick a pump that is too small in general for a a tank of your size regardless of sump design, and it still Eshopps fault!?! Sheesh. If anything, the fault should be on your LFS for selling you and undersized pump for a 60 gallon tank.

I am guessing you don't understand the issue with these sumps and why it is an Eshopps design or information issue. I'm not going to try and explain it to you any more clear then the original post. Yes, I did let the local reef shop put together the system. What you dont know is that they are long time friends and I trust them very much. The issue is that they had a model setup and asked a newer employee to match that tank and have everything ready to go for me when I arrived. The new employee did this exactly, problem was it was a seahorse tank.
None of that is relevant to the design issue of the sump but it is however how I discovered that there is a design issue in that the slots into the refugium area are open so much that there is a required minimum flow going into the sump to insure most will go through the sock. So yes, an Eshopps issue.
The only reason I even stated the pump size was to show all equipment involved to find the flaw which should be unnecessary. If you by a product and it say you must supply it with "X" for it to work properly then that is perfectly acceptable. If you by a product that must take 220v and you only have 110v and it never said that ANY where in the description, instructions or anything then that is an issue.

Water Dog · Feb 20, 2020

I know exactly how those sumps work... I‘ve owned an Eshopps R-200.

William Robinson · Feb 20, 2020

Water Dog said:
I know exactly how those sumps work... I‘ve owned an Eshopps R-200.

It is a completely different design and not even relevant... lol I have the RS-200 under my 120g... Just stop unless you have this sump and messed with it. Trying to defend something you have zero information on is irrational.

Water Dog · Feb 20, 2020

No, the R-200 that I had is a refugium design similar to the refugium design of their cube sump. So I am very familiar with how it works and the flow pattern through it. “LOL” It is not at all like RS-200 which is a traditional sump design.

All I tried to do in my initial post was to try to help and tell you that you just needed more flow. No matter... there is no convincing you to take ownership of your own decisions (or lack thereof) and those of your LFS for selling you a product that they are clearly unfamiliar with. Sorry for trying to help...

I’m out.

William Robinson · Feb 20, 2020

Ah I see now, you were offended by my first sentence in my reply. Also, you assume I didn't understand you were meaning the refugium version of the RS-200 in which is exactly what is on my 120 that is completely irrelevant to this and no, it is not the same. I wasn't trying to offend you at all. I can see you don't understand the issue with the sumps which is fine. You clearly represent the few in this hobby who are the "Experts" and know it all even though you've never owned whatever it may be. You can take your trolling elsewhere.

Oberst Oswald · Feb 20, 2020

Time to lick your wounds and get a bigger pump. A 60 gallon tank would like a Reef Octopus VarioS-4 DC Pump (1050gph) which would be ideal. For a seahorse tank a RO VarioS-2 (792gph) would also be enough to supply both the sock overflow and the frug supply. I have the R-200 sump on my 65 gallon and both pumps worked fine. Look at the bright side... you now are much wiser knowing not the trust anybody at a LFS. Your own effort acquiring the knowledge to make a proper purchase is key in this hobby.

William Robinson · Feb 20, 2020

Oberst Oswald said:
Time to lick your wounds and get a bigger pump. A 60 gallon tank would like a Reef Octopus VarioS-4 DC Pump (1050gph) which would be ideal. For a seahorse tank a RO VarioS-2 (792gph) would also be enough to supply both the sock overflow and the frug supply. I have the R-200 sump on my 65 gallon and both pumps worked fine. Look at the bright side... you now are much wiser knowing not the trust anybody at a LFS. Your own effort acquiring the knowledge to make a proper purchase is key in this hobby.

This is not a seahorse tank I have. I already have my new DC pump on the way. Just making do with this one until then. The only point I am making with this thread is the issue with the sump. Not the pump. I have 4 different tanks and my LFS knows me pretty well so I had assumed they would match the appropriate pump but like I said it was a time crunch, new guy picked the stuff and I didn't check it. If the sump worked as intended it would only be a turnover issue and not all over the water bypassing the sock all together.