DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Urea feeding the bacteria would convert to useable nitrogen for the coral though, no?

You mean if the coral ate the bacteria, or do you mean releasing ammonia?

 

[Mateusz]

You mean if the coral ate the bacteria, or do you mean releasing ammonia?

yes when it gets converted by them or whatever they would do to it.

 

[Reefahholic]

Not even close to the same thing regarding how they work, can google nitrate vs urea to get a better idea.

What did you notice different in the tank?

 

[Reefahholic]

yes when it gets converted by them or whatever they would do to it.

If it’s a good food source for the bacteria and they consume it, and the corals consume them. It should be better because the bacteria are also consuming phosphorus and trace elements.

 

[Mateusz]

If it’s a good food source for the bacteria and they consume it, and the corals consume them. It should be better because the bacteria are also consuming phosphorus and trace elements.

I'm not a science expert but from what i've read and been told there is a difference between something like calcium nitrate and urea as a nitrogen source. The calcium nitrate needs to be converted because it's inorganic? The urea is already organic so it's uptake can be more direct as well, aside from the microbes role in using it. There isn't much information on it that I can find, so maybe my question doesn't make sense.

 

[Reefahholic]

I'm not a science expert but from what i've read and been told there is a difference between something like calcium nitrate and urea as a nitrogen source. The calcium nitrate needs to be converted because it's inorganic? The urea is already organic so it's uptake can be more direct as well, aside from the microbes role in using it. There isn't much information on it that I can find, so maybe my question doesn't make sense.

There’s no question that it’s easier for corals to uptake from what I heard. I just can’t find hardly anybody using it that has more success. Every time I ask somebody they don’t really tell me it’s making a big difference. It definitely peaks my interest, but it seems to be more dangerous to dose, and maybe that’s why there’s not a lot of people using it. IDK.

 

[brandon429]

My system is one gallon, I'm putting one drop in per day and my corals are very extended/ good response so far. Hoping it'll help them feed and take back on some color from a small bleaching event

 

[Mateusz]

There’s no question that it’s easier for corals to uptake from what I heard. I just can’t find hardly anybody using it that has more success. Every time I ask somebody they don’t really tell me it’s making a big difference. It definitely peaks my interest, but it seems to be more dangerous to dose, and maybe that’s why there’s not a lot of people using it. IDK.

Any thread i've found on it has had people supposedly start to try it then just go radio silence. I've found nobody follow up regarding it. Makes me wonder if people hiding something about it... Could be possible.

I don't see how urea would be that dangerous as long as you know to do the math correctly to figure out how much your dosing in. You can easily make a PPM or PPB solution of the stuff and dose it.

 

[Reefahholic]

My system is one gallon, I'm putting one drop in per day and my corals are very extended/ good response so far. Hoping it'll help them feed and take back on some color from a small bleaching event

Are you able to test and see that it’s raising nitrates or no?

 

[Reefahholic]

Any thread i've found on it has had people supposedly start to try it then just go radio silence. I've found nobody follow up regarding it. Makes me wonder if people hiding something about it... Could be possible.

I don't see how urea would be that dangerous as long as you know to do the math correctly to figure out how much your dosing in. You can easily make a PPM or PPB solution of the stuff and dose it.

Yeah exactly what I’ve found too. Nobody really talks about it unless they’re taking about trying it. I did talk to a coral farmer about it and I have access to a very pure form of Urea, but neither person doses it. The farmer that did told me it was more dangerous than regular nitrate dosing and I wish I could remember why. I think he said it was stronger also, but if I remember correctly he basically didn’t see any major changes or faster growth so he stopped dosing it. I’ll see if I still have that conversation in messenger after I finish my rounds here at work. I sure would like to dose it to see for myself.

 

[brandon429]

I don't have any test kits beyond temp and salinity. I figure this is a precalculated .5 ppm dose per Dr Tims ammonium chloride. I put the drop in a drawn off portion of tank water, add half then wait 30 mins add other half

Not really measuring other than subjective evaluation of color, extension, hopefully add mass rates for lps and sps. Using light ammonia + extra feeding and water changes to try and drive coral growth rates. Will hold and reevaluate in 2 moss

One drop sure goes a long ways in a pico reef that's for sure

 

[Reefahholic]

I found some of our conversation. I won’t reveal his name, but this guy grows 24-36” colonies fast.

 

[Mateusz]

Yeah exactly what I’ve found too. Nobody really talks about it unless they’re taking about trying it. I did talk to a coral farmer about it and I have access to a very pure form of Urea, but neither person doses it. The farmer that did told me it was more dangerous than regular nitrate dosing and I wish I could remember why. I think he said it was stronger also, but if I remember correctly he basically didn’t see any major changes or faster growth so he stopped dosing it. I’ll see if I still have that conversation in messenger after I finish my rounds here at work. I sure would like to dose it to see for myself.

Sent you a pm

 

[Reefahholic]

Dr. Balling can tell you a lot about both of them also. He’s tried several different nitrogen sources.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'm not a science expert but from what i've read and been told there is a difference between something like calcium nitrate and urea as a nitrogen source. The calcium nitrate needs to be converted because it's inorganic? The urea is already organic so it's uptake can be more direct as well, aside from the microbes role in using it. There isn't much information on it that I can find, so maybe my question doesn't make sense.

Organisms using nitrogen to build most biomolecules will use ammonia as the ultimate starting point. if you dose any other source of N (nitrate, nitrite, urea, amino acids, etc.) then the organism taking them up must convert them to ammonia first (except amino acids for the specific amino acid concerned).

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

You could stick to your normal dosing and try manually dosing 0.1 ppm ammonia once in the AM and once in the PM and see if that alone does anything detectable. Little risk to that, IMO. :)

So, I’ve been dosing 0.1 ppm ammonia twice a day for a little while. I did not alter my nitrate dosing at the onset of adding ammonia. The current dose of 0.1 ppm ammonia x2 per day is raising my nitrate by 0.7 ppm per day, on average. I’m now at the point where I’ll be adjusting my nitrate dosing down roughly 0.7 ppm per day, to keep my level constant. After a week I’ll bump up the ammonia, and lower the nitrate dosing in equal proportion. My Alk demand has decreased slightly since dosing ammonia, pretty much inverse to the increase in nitrate (as nitrate was increasing by 0.7 ppm per day, alkalinity was increasing by close to 0.7 dkh per day) and I’ve dialed down my calcium reactor to maintain a consistent level. I’m not a great guineas pig here as my vision is where it’s at. The only thing of note so far, as pointed out by a visitor, is that two small tufts of gha have appeared. I’ll pull those out when they’re big enough for me to remove by feel. This may be unrelated as I lost my two tuxedo urchins a month or two ago (I’m thinking age related).

Edit. I’m using Hanna checkers for nitrate and also alkalinity to verify the trident alkalinity results. My normal daily alkalinity consumption was 2.4 dkh last I checked

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for the update!

 

[NorthBayReefer]

I've been following along and started dosing the 0.1mg/L instructions twice a day for the last two weeks, as all three of my tanks had zero nitrates. I've been testing twice per week with a Hanna tester. My youngest tank rose to 7 last week and 11 this week. I have reduced the dose to once per day on that one as to settle to my preferred 5ppm. My two well established tanks still read 0.0 nitrates on every test. I'm going to increase the dosage.
As far as tank/coral effects I have noticed very happy zoas, mushrooms, and SPS on all three tanks in general. I am closely monitoring a frogspawn that is deflating a bit. This same tank has a very happy hammer, candy cane, and another frogspawn so I am wondering if the ammonia is not part of this equation. TBC...

 

[brandon429]

My tank is showing deeper color and better extension in my opinion. The dose I'm using is one drop of Dr Tims into a gallon pico reef. Should be a .5 ppm boost each round

The pico is just shy of 18 yrs old it gets only sparse feeding so nitrogen input is tightly controlled. The ammonia input should pair well with feeding to bulk corals back up

 

[Vested]

Love the idea of dosing ammonia to an ATO container. Couple questions..

Is the stagnant ato reservoir a concern? Does ammonium bicarbonate stay evenly distributed in the water?
If a kalk reactor is being fed with ato water with ammonia bicarbonate will the CO2 or ammonia effect the kalkwasser?