DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

[Propane]

Yes. I have about 80 fish and probably in the range of 400 corals in my system, dosing directly into the overflow of one of my tanks via a dosing pump. Seen nothing but improvement since I started.

Nice! I’ve been dosing ammonia for about a month and a half ever since my fish died. My corals are looking pretty good but my wife is internet searching and trying to figure out when fish can go back in the tank lol. She’s trying to set up a QT tank for them now.

 

[taricha]

with anyone dosing the ammonia to a tank, please take an api ammonia reading if you have the kit before, during, and after and post the resolution times the kit shows.

I'm interested to know if the kit picks up the known inputted dose and registers it accurately

Here's how API responds to an addition of +0.1 or +0.2ppm total ammonia.
You can see the difference, but only if you have unspiked water to compare to side by side...

True, you can't tell 0.0 vs 0.1 or 0.2 in a single test, but....
If you pull a cup or two of water out of the tank before dosing and then test it side-by-side with the tank after dosing, I'm confident any total ammonia kit will show you a slight color difference.

this is what straight API kit does....

left: no way to tell that the +0.10ppm spike is anything other than zero.
right: tank water, tw+0.10ppm, tw+0.20ppm.

 

[brandon429]

I'm wanting to see it ran by everyone other than you though for reasons stated

Want to see the collective impact of variation in prep and running from 200 ammonia dosers, not doses from the same person. I want to see 200 different test kits attempting alignment, not test kits in the hands of one person in much control over variables and context

This collective group read is what defines cycling science to the current hobbyist, I would like to see it fact checked

Not to hijack other than to shamelessly attempt to extract cycling data from someone's excellent chemistry thread, but here's the cousin of this thread current thread we're on only everyone is on a tuned seneye:
(Tuned= we see it running in nh3 spec relative to the degree of stocking in the tank factored by average surface area copied by everyone else before the load ammonia is administered.)

Does anyone dose ammonia and/or how would one try?

I recently read a thread where @jda suggested dosing ammonium (from Home Depot or Lowe's) instead of ammonia. He's brought it up multiple times that our phosphate and nitrate levels are the result of unused ammonia/ammonium in our tanks. His point seems to be why dose the end-result instead of...

www.reef2reef.com

Note the universal resolve rates among tanks that stack mega surface area in the middle of a reef tank and how that resolve time scales across gallonage



Now if I can get that same data from twenty pages of ammonia dosers using the opposite test, any badge, api, red sea, nyos, salifert, a paradigm verification is underway

If reefers will simply post a before picture of the baseline ammonia test on their tank, then the same picture of the redone test on its color chart about 3 minutes after dosing what is a known calibrated amount into the reef, which each test should reflect, then one about an hour after the dose we'll just have cycling gold info

But I need pages of it to extract the data pattern


Not what happened for one person very much in control of the test kit, it's ordered prep and run sequence, handles reporting of the pic in perfect white lab light which I appreciate immensely

 

[brandon429]

To not extract dual benefit from a great thread and valuable data trove is a crime

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

I am about to make a post that will have a couple of these points as it relates to something else (please read that if you see it, I could use all the insight possible).

My Max was relocated about 3-4 months ago. Tank is >3 years old and can be seen here:


When moving it I didn't use new substrate and I guess I started a mini cycle. I haven't been able to get to zero ammonia plus I have very low nitrates. I've posted that here and it was suggested to dose ammonia, I followed Randy's posts and have been doing that for a few weeks. My ammonia is still floating between .09 and .01. I am using Hanna checkers. Have lots of Chaeto and pods in my refugium that are doing well, so I am curious if the levels are so low that the canary is fine. Anyway, I am really wondering why I can't get to zero and should I dose more ammonia mixture? I also bought nitrate that I could dose, should I do both? Switch?

You can see my parameters here:

 

[brandon429]

What could go wrong, thank you for posting that

Any recycling in reefing not associated with mass animal dieoff such as fish/ all inverts at once resolves itself in the time frame shown in the seneye thread including your boost ammonia dosing from this thread. Any insult by the move is resolved in under an hour

The sandbed does not can carry such loading potential that a disturbance/destratification event for waste stores causes an extended ammonia issue

Harmful compounds in sandbed waste other than ammonia have been shown in pattern to harm tanks but yours seems past any timeframe for that. What happens now to your reef is a matter of daily care quality. No sneak attacks are coming

Any ammonia put into suspension is quickly worked across your surface area and that same scale of rocks above is copied in every reef tank. So the resolve rates are the same...

This means whatever that test reads means it's at baseline safe right now because your tank isn't in distress from ammonia

That comes from believing the test at all costs over the known control rates for ammonia a reef tank displays

The known chemistry of cycle control in reefing supercedes whatever a test kit reads but what you've posted begins a pattern side collection potential and I was hoping for that

We're using reef tanks to accuracy proof test kits, not the other way around isn't that a strange approach... but it's true. The seneye thread shows ammonia control ability and that's the same ability for this thread even if other meters seem to stick or not zero out

Crucial: any nh4 test readout needs converted to nh3 for reefing relevancy, we don't expect zeroes in people's nh4 readings, so anything reported above if it's nh4 isn't an alarm. Those meters have a .5% error rate potential and that factors in readouts which is why the pattern set is so important

Your tank is ok and not going to be harmed it'll be well- fed

The sum relevancy of this to Randy's post is that this method is safe for all reefs that move water quickly across live rocks, just don't go overboard as mentioned.

In fact I'll pick up some Dr Tims ammonia from petco in a bit,
I'll play. Reefbowl gets a zip of ammonia weekly I agree that's a great feed supplement. I'll start dosing this pico reef with ammonia today to add to results here

I think it's nitrogen starved there's no fish. That brain coral should be grown up under the rock and it's stalled

If anyone posts here their test kit said the tank didn't resolve the ammonia dose I'll doubt the kit reading not the actual tank. I'm not going to be testing my reef after ammonia addition bc my concern rate is 0% even at one gallon volume. That rock per gallon ratio is double that of any tank here with the same current rate... plus its laminar flow across surfaces which is slightly more efficient at waste resolution and gas exchange than powerhead random eddy currents

I bet that little pony can handle a 3x dose and be just fine. I'm just going to put in guesstimate # drops and hold consistent for eight weeks with pics updated

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

What could go wrong, thank you for posting that

Any recycling in reefing not associated with mass animal dieoff such as fish/ all inverts at once resolves itself in the time frame shown in the seneye thread including your boost ammonia dosing from this thread. Any insult by the move is resolved in under an hour

The sandbed does not can carry such loading potential that a disturbance/destratification event for waste stores causes an extended ammonia issue

Harmful compound in sandbed waste other than ammonia have been shown in pattern to harm tanks but yours seems past any timeframe for that. What happens now to your reef is a matter of daily care quality. No sneak attacks are coming

Any ammonia put into suspension is quickly worked across your surface area and that same scale of rocks above is copied in every reef tank. So the resolve rates are the same...

This means whatever that test reads means it's at baseline safe right now because your tank isn't in distress from ammonia

That comes from believing the test at all costs over the known control rates for ammonia a reef tank displays

The known chemistry of cycle control in reefing supercedes whatever a test kit reads but what you've posted begins a pattern side collection potential and I was hoping for that

We're using reef tanks to accuracy proof test kits, not the other way around isn't that a strange approach... but it's true. The seneye thread shows ammonia control ability and that's the same ability for this thread even if other meters seem to stick or not zero out

Crucial: any nh4 test readout needs converted to nh3 for reefing relevancy, we don't expect zeroes in people's nh4 readings, so anything reported above if it's nh4 isn't an alarm. Those meters have a .5% error rate potential and that factors in readouts which is why the pattern set is so important

Your tank is ok and not going to be harmed it'll be well- fed

The sum relevancy of this to Randy's post is that this method is safe for all reefs that move water quickly across love rocks, just don't go overboard as mentioned.

In fact I'll pick up some Dr Tims ammonia from petco in a bit,
I'll play. Reefbowl gets a zip of ammonia weekly I agree that's a great feed supplement. I'll start dosing this pico reef with ammonia today to add to results here

@brandon429 Thank you for taking the time to write that out and read this. Super helpful. I have been following the rip clean deal you layout. We are going to execute your plan once this other tank is ready to move forward (doing a dark cure in a display). It would be good to have an emergency display ready on hand in my opinion, after all, remember my username We want to replace the substrate and I need to shift the tank some, plus replace the skin (we have been rehabing this old girl...). I just can't see how I can pick these teeth clean over a weekend. I plan to wash sand one weekend and rip the tank apart the next, giving me 1/2 a Friday and Sat/Sun. I am thinking about live streaming this disaster as it unfolds, lol...

 

[brandon429]

Hey if you'll send a message we'll work it to completion I'll be happy to have a nice transfer challenge if needed

 

[brandon429]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

revisiting the old adage/concern about water being kept in a room with a cat little box

assuming the ammonia gas is strong enough to waft over and get into solution, in a bucket of clear standing saltwater to be used for water changes, if the source / cat box is removed/ are there any mechanisms by which standing water loses that same incorporated ammonia going back to zero? or does it stay in one of the ionic forms until physically removed from the water by one of the several means?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

revisiting the old adage/concern about water being kept in a room with a cat little box

assuming the ammonia gas is strong enough to waft over and get into solution, in a bucket of clear standing saltwater to be used for water changes, if the source / cat box is removed/ are there any mechanisms by which standing water loses that same incorporated ammonia going back to zero? or does it stay in one of the ionic forms until physically removed from the water by one of the several means?

Any molecule that has a gas phase component, such as ammonia, will equilibrate between the air and water, and if the air is kept at none, it will eventually leave the water with none.

How fast that happens depends on several factors, and one thing that slows down ammonia export this way is that most of it is present as NH4+ (which has no gas phase component), so kinetically it is only the NH3 form that equilibrates.

All other things being equal, at pH 8.2, only 7% of ammonia is present as NH3, so the equilibration with the air is something like 14 times slower for that reason.

Another thing that slows down transfer from the water to the gas is the hydrogen bonding that takes place between ammonia and water. One needs to break those to release the ammonia from the water, but I am uncertain how much that slows the attainment of equilibrium, relative to something like O2 or N2 which has neither of the two effects described above.

Finally, stirring of the water will speed things a lot, because diffusion of molecules in water is actually pretty slow, and a standing trash can full of water will be in equilibrium at the top few layers of water molecules that contain ammonia, and completely not at equilibrium at the bottom.

 

[brandon429]

thank you so much. I'm having a bit of a bleaching issue on top sps in my pico/never had that before/recently changed water brands prob did it but my change vat is in the cat room and though I swore off 100000% ammonia concerns in reefing I can't help but blame the cat or my positioning of the change vat among clue hunts lol. I should have transitioned water brands slower/lowered light levels.

 

[Borat]

I know of a reliable ammonia dosing Kazakistan style (also enhances yellow colours for your corals) - but if I reveal my secret Randy is likely to moderate/remove this post.

 

[Mateusz]

Some reef aquaria have chronic low nitrogen availability. One indicator is very low nitrate. Nitrate dosing is a fine remedy, but it is possible that ammonia dosing may be more beneficial for some organisms since ammonia can be energetically easier to assimilate than is nitrate.

For this reason, I thought it would be useful to provide some DIY directions for ammonia dosing.

There are many materials that could be used for ammonia dosing, including some household ammonia solutions, but in order to give better assurance of purity, I'm electing the show directions using food grade ammonium chloride and food grade ammonium bicarbonate.

Ammonium Chloride
Ammonium chloride, NH4Cl is essentially ammonia (NH3) plus hydrochloric acid (HCl). The reason I mention that fact relates to the impact on alkalinity. Dosing NH3 followed by consumption by organisms to form tissue in a net alkalinity neutral process. I'm ignoring the fact that if it is converted into nitrate, alk is lost, because if that nitrate is later used, all the alk lost comes back.

However, the HCl that is effectively dosed will steadily deplete alk. Adding the equivalent of 50 mg/L nitrate (0.81 meq/L; coming from NH4Cl) will have depleted 0.81 meq/l (2.3 dKH) of alkalinity. That may need to be made up for in some other fashion, such as adding more alkalintiy supplement.

High quality ammonium chloride is readily available and inexpensive. Loudwolf is one brand, but there are many. Aim for food grade or ACS reagent grade. Amazon carries many Loudwolf is $7 for 4 ounces, which contains 38,000 mg of ammonium, and is equivalent to 131,000 mg of nitrate, enough to raise 100 L of aquarium water to 5 ppm nitrate about 262 times. So cost is not significant.

Ammonium Bicarbonate
Ammonium bicarbonate, also known as baking ammonia, NH4 HCO3 is essentially ammonia (NH3) plus CO2 and water.

As mentioned above, dosing NH3 followed by consumption by organisms to form tissue in a net alkalinity neutral process. The CO2 and water also do not impact alkalinity. Thus, ammonium bicarbonate is a net alk neutral way to dose ammonia.

High quality ammonium bicarbonate is also available from Amazon as baking ammonia. It is readily available and inexpensive. One brand sells 11 ounces for $15, so it's cost is similar to the Loudwolf ammonium chloride per unit of ammonia added (one needs to use more of the ammonium bicarbonate than the ammonium chloride, evening out the cost).

Stock Solution
Using either of these materials, we will make a stock solution for dosing. Keep it closed up as it will smell of ammonia and slowly loses ammonia to the air. Ammonium bicarbonate will have a higher pH, smell more, and lose ammonia to the air faster.

13.5 grams of ammonium chloride (about 3 - 4.6 teaspoons, varies by brand) in 1 L RO/DI water.
OR
20 grams of ammonium bicarbonate (about 4 and 3/4 teaspoons) in 1 L RO/DI water.

Both solutions contain approximately 4300 mg/L (4.3 mg/mL) ammonia, equivalent to 15,700 mg/l nitrate.

Dosing

Don't be overly afraid of dosing ammonia due to toxicity, but one cannot dose substantial amounts all at once. IMO, it is safe to add 0.1 ppm ammonia (equivalent to 0.36 ppm nitrate) at once to any reef tank, and one can likely add more, if it mixes in well. Don't dose it right onto a fish, but dosing 2-3x that amount at once is also likely OK. Of course, using a dosing pump to spread out the dosing is fine and may be preferable, but be sure to guard against dosing pumps out of control (e.g., stuck on). Stock solutions can be increased or decreased in potency to match pumping needs. The ammonia could also be put into an ato since exact daily dosing is not required.

To add 0.1 mg/L ammonia to an aquarium, you would need to add 2.3 mL of either stock solution to a 100 L (26 gallon) aquarium. You may need to add this amount multiply times per day to dose enough.

I'd add it to a sump, if possible, to dilute it well before it gets to the main tank. Most folks dosing ammonia wouldn't also be using media intended to push the nitrogen cycle in various ways, but if you do, dose downstream of that media.

Of course, if anything seems to react badly the first time or two that you dose, stop dosing, double check the amounts, and perhaps come back to this thread for further discussion of what might be happening.

This article has a lot more on ammonia in reef aquaria, although some parts of it may not be correct (such as the utility of products such as Prime):

Ammonia and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Happy Reefing!

How do you feel about dosing urea as an alternative. Ive found some prior posts with you responding to people regarding it.

A few people i know are trying to see if there is any positive result using it.... Im dosing at roughly 2ppb for a month now.

 

[apt220]

To simplify my dosing, can I mix ammonium chloride in the same container I have diluted vinegar? If not, I think less likely, could I mix ammonium chloride in a soda ash solution?

 

[Reefahholic]

Anybody have better results with Ammonium chloride?

I came really close to dosing Urea once, but decided against it after talking with a guru that tried it before. I think he basically concluded it was more dangerous to dose, and didn’t really have the effect that he anticipated. I like the idea that corals can uptake it better, but it seems to have some unpredictable alkalinity effects.

 

[Reefahholic]

How do you feel about dosing urea as an alternative. Ive found some prior posts with you responding to people regarding it.

A few people i know are trying to see if there is any positive result using it.... Im dosing at roughly 2ppb for a month now.

Anything different or about the same as sodium nitrate?

 

[Mateusz]

Anything different or about the same as sodium nitrate?

Not even close to the same thing regarding how they work, can google nitrate vs urea to get a better idea.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How do you feel about dosing urea as an alternative. Ive found some prior posts with you responding to people regarding it.

A few people i know are trying to see if there is any positive result using it.... Im dosing at roughly 2ppb for a month now.

I do not know which organisms can consume it, aside from bacteria.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

To simplify my dosing, can I mix ammonium chloride in the same container I have diluted vinegar? If not, I think less likely, could I mix ammonium chloride in a soda ash solution?

Yes in vinegar. In high pH solutions it will smell and slowly lose ammonia.

 

[Mateusz]

I do not know which organisms can consume it, aside from bacteria.

Urea feeding the bacteria would convert to useable nitrogen for the coral though, no?