DIY LED upgrade in an old PFO MH/VHO fixture led driver suggestions.

[geekengineer]

Ok so if I just swallowed my pride and bought a 700mA version of the meanwell for "ch 3" and use that for the royal blues would that make it easier then? I guess I can make a new driver box it seems like I'm boxing you in a corner too much.

 

[oreo54]

As of this AM I've got some confirmation that stringing mis-matched voltage leds is no issue..
Bridgelux are back in the game.

9.4----33----9.4----33----9.4----33----9.4----33----9.4 =146V
According to the data sheet the V(f) of the Bridgelux is between 33.25-34V
That is close and any variation in the 9.4v voltage will bring it up to or past the 150V limit.
Think you need to limit yourself to 3 Bridgelux Gen 7 v18 thrive cobs.
Lets use 34V
102 (3 Bridgelux @ 34V) and 48V (remaining room)
The blue/cyan chips have v(f) listed on eek bay of

Forward Voltage:9-12v​

12----34----12----34----12----34----12
Good for reg blue/white string.

Switching to a HLG120--c700 with 107-215V but current limited to 700mA.
Technically you probably wouldn't need the AB series, just the B for dimming.
Outputs the same wattage approx.
Doesn't hurt to have the AB if cost difference (or available) is minimum.
Difference seems to be $9
Sure start the day off w/ an error.
Removed links to incorrect drivers

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mean-well-usa-inc./HLG-120H-C700A/7703909?utm_adgroup=LED%20Drivers&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping_Product_Power%20Supplies%20-%20External%2FInternal%20%28Off-Board%29_NEW&utm_term=&utm_content=LED%20Drivers&gclid=Cj0KCQjw7KqZBhCBARIsAI-fTKJCtDzhjmW_HtSrbOAzHqgbmsKEcJlOfJ7GLWn1yxO4xX78ScFk7t8aAhreEALw_wcB

Actually they seem to be about the same price but finding an AB "on the shelf" is difficult.


Now what to do with all that extra voltage..
You know when I stuck with LDD-h DC/DC drivers life was simpler..

I don't think you need more than 3 Bridgelux (12000 lumens) unless you really want a white tank.
The high cri fills in the red and cyan "flaws" of other high K leds.

So really you are left with WHAT blue ..and 113 Volts. or 9 12v cobs

One thing though does your tank this is going on have braces and if so how many.
Single braced tank you need 4 Bridgelux (or 2 but that ship sailed) 2 baces- 3.
no braces.. envy..

See this can keep you to 2 drivers, just not the same ones.
Maximum wattage is 300 still

In case you are wondering I have a box full of unused ac/dc drivers because I changed my goals..








BUT the reason for the 3rd channel (color tuning and/or simply more power) is still in play..

 

[geekengineer]

So I asked if I could change my order for the 1023AB to the 700B instead. Can I still use the 1023AB I have currently?

 

[oreo54]

So I asked if I could change my order for the 1023AB to the 700B instead. Can I still use the 1023AB I have currently?

Yes for the vho replacement channel. Advantage is if your heatsink can take it you can exceed the 700mA limit (which you already did) of the 700B

Mockup of the 2nd channel using 700b.
Black squares are possible braces. Do you have opaque braces on that tank.
Spacing needs to be changed accordingly in that event
Ch2 is (the 1's are 2 of the 12 cobs from the VHO replacement channel)
Length is approx to scale. width is not.

* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
myData SPECTRA CSV DATA (2022/05/09) x3
LED Blue (470nm) x54
LED Cyan (490nm) x27
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux: 15,051 lm
Radiant flux: 67,739 mW
PPF: 298 umol/s
TCP: 19610 K
CRI: 60
λp: 472 nm
Color: #69B5FF

 

[geekengineer]

I forgot to say its a 40 breeder so it's all open.

 

[Lingwendil]

I've used those blue 10w generics before, and didn't find the longevity on them all that impressive.

Doesn't Bridgelux and Citizen make blue COBs nowadays? I seem to remember seeing the parts numbers thrown around a while back but couldn't find them from the usual US based name brand parts places (digikey, arrow, mouser, etc)

 

[oreo54]

I forgot to say its a 40 breeder so it's all open.

Preliminary..

 

[oreo54]

I've used those blue 10w generics before, and didn't find the longevity on them all that impressive.

Doesn't Bridgelux and Citizen make blue COBs nowadays? I seem to remember seeing the parts numbers thrown around a while back but couldn't find them from the usual US based name brand parts places (digikey, arrow, mouser, etc)

RapidLed had some. Don't see them anymore..
Reg blue also out of stock.

Citizen CLU048-1212C4-B455 (Blue COB) – CobKits.com

cobkits.com

He had the rb on hand.. and as You and I know DIY is never permanent..

Same power ..if run >1000mA
6750 mW I assume on full current..$129 for 12.

Philips Luxeon M Royal Blue - 12 Watt

LED Group Buy, an Online Aquarium Lighting Store offering high end LED Lights, Power Sources, Full Spectrum Lighting, & more at wholesale prices. Shop Now!

www.ledgroupbuy.com

 

[geekengineer]

So did you change all the royal blues to blue? Just checking. I could order some more blue. I do wonder if you can't overdrive the generics COB as much as maybe others.

 

[oreo54]

Starting to reach the "project creep" stage

Solderless Ocean Coral White

LED Group Buy, an Online Aquarium Lighting Store offering high end LED Lights, Power Sources, Full Spectrum Lighting, & more at wholesale prices. Shop Now!

www.ledgroupbuy.com

Jumper them to run in series at 700mA
9.2V each @ 700mA = 6.44W

9 @ $7 each pared with 3 Bridgelux COBs

myData SPECTRA CSV DATA (2022/05/09) x6
LED Blue (470nm) x18
LED Cyan (490nm) x18
LED DeepRed (640nm) x18
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux: 14,328 lm
Radiant flux: 60,422 mW
PPF: 276 umol/s
TCP: 7520 K
CRI: 87
λp: 472 nm
Color: #DBE1FF

 

[Lingwendil]

RapidLed had some. Don't see them anymore..
Reg blue also out of stock.

Citizen CLU048-1212C4-B455 (Blue COB) – CobKits.com

cobkits.com

He had the rb on hand.. and as You and I know DIY is never permanent..

Same power ..if run >1000mA
6750 mW I assume on full current..$129 for 12.

Philips Luxeon M Royal Blue - 12 Watt

LED Group Buy, an Online Aquarium Lighting Store offering high end LED Lights, Power Sources, Full Spectrum Lighting, & more at wholesale prices. Shop Now!

www.ledgroupbuy.com

That's really not a bad price, run them at 1000mA, maybe up to 1500mA if actively cooled. Low forward voltage means more per string

 

[oreo54]

So did you change all the royal blues to blue? Just checking. I could order some more blue. I do wonder if you can't overdrive the generics COB as much as maybe others.

No all still royal blue..Everything with a "1" is a royal blue.

That's really not a bad price, run them at 1000mA, maybe up to 1500mA if actively cooled. Low forward voltage means more per string

Yea but they don't exist.. Apparently I got to a "orphaned page". Their normal inventory doesn't list them, even if out of stock, anywhere.

 

[oreo54]

No all still royal blue..Everything with a "1" is a royal blue.

Yea but they don't exist.. Apparently I got to a "orphaned page". Their normal inventory doesn't list them, even if out of stock, anywhere.

Fellings on OCW plus Bridgelux. Lots of 660nm red but gets heavily diluted by rb.

Ohhh .gives me an idea ..some custom 3ups from steves..

Took me THIS long to realize a 3 up 3w tristar is the same as those 10w cobs
9.17 Volts for the above in series.

 

[oreo54]

So did you change all the royal blues to blue? Just checking. I could order some more blue. I do wonder if you can't overdrive the generics COB as much as maybe others.

At this point you need to say "Captain may I" before ordering anything..

 

[oreo54]

Updat, after fighting w/ 3 Bridgelux plus x 3 up stars I've given up on the orig pattern.
Now 1) Steves stars are err not cheap though not expensive.
2) Threw out using cyan/blue/amber because high cri cobs have plenty
3) Upped Bridgelux count to 4 instead of 3
4) Upped 3 ups and changed content to 9 total and Blue:blue:cyan
Have a feeling cyan may not be available which would start this whole process over.

* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
myData SPECTRA CSV DATA (2022/05/09) x8
LED Blue (470nm) x32
LED Cyan (500nm) x16
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux: 18,048 lm
Radiant flux: 72,721 mW
PPF: 327 umol/s
TCP: 9430 K
CRI: 83
λp: 472 nm
Color: #A4DEFF

Parking this here:

Phoenix 14K Lamps Phoenix 250W Double Ended Lamp

Phoenix 14K HEXARC marine blue metal halide lamp, MH 150W MB, MH HEXARC MH-250W/TD/B, MH 250W MB, MH-150W/TD/B, MH-250W/TD/B

www.viclite.com

 

[geekengineer]

OK I got tired this evening and crashed. So I guess this is what you have for the center part ch2? Not sure what the MH bulb you put there are for? Mine are 2 150Ws so 250 would be too much.

OK the sight has both wattages.

 

[geekengineer]

So would it still be OK if I change my order to the 120 700mA B meanwell still? She called me when I was at the phone for work and I couldn't get a hold of the lady later to change the order.

 

[oreo54]

So would it still be OK if I change my order to the 120 700mA B meanwell still? She called me when I was at the phone for work and I couldn't get a hold of the lady later to change the order.

Yes. Actually the new design needs it. IF you get stuck with the AB still works but needs diode redesign.
After all both have a max output of 150W.

As to the Pheonix that's more for me. Wanted an easy place to find it. Mostly for the spectrums.
Also I thougt it was you that used them but looking back I see it wasn't. I think. Lot to read.
I got curious as it was listed as 10000k, stated to run more like 14000k but the data shows it is neither and that fits with users opinions as well..
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/phoenix-metal-halide-bulbs.772072/

I agree that the K ratings are mostly stupid.

14k Phoenix looks more like other 14k bulbs than 20k bulbs. 20k Radium is more like a 14k than a 20k. The new hamilton 20k is more like a 14k too and was designed to mimic the 20k Radium without needing a HQI ballast.

Phoenix 14k on m80 is mostly crisp white with really good pop. No windex.

The Phoenix 14k has less output and is a bit windex'y on a regular 250w ballast and not m80. Superlumens or "HQI" on an electronic ballast is somewhere in the middle.

 

[oreo54]

OK back to the issues.
1) Gave up on the OCW 3 ups. No need for that much 660nm red. Bridgelux cobs have plenty.
2) Steves 3 ups, started with cyan/reg blue/ amber. Switched to 2 reg blue/cyan.
Same reason as 1) plenty in the Bridgelux.
3) Possible problems with steves beside cost. 3w ambers listed as out of stock, Doesn't even show cyans. Good chance neither is available for for the 3 ups

Amber is a bit controversial I guess. Japanese like it for stimulation of chromoproteins.
All mercury driven lamps have an amber spike. Somewhere around 570-590 or close.

Most led amber diodes don't peak at like 575 so sort of a shotgun approach to get close enough.

Blue plus example.
BTW that is what make the bulb look whitish Blue/Green/Amber similar to RGB =W

 

[geekengineer]

Can you get those 3 ups blank board and then buy your own LEDs?

EDIT: It does say if you want a blank ones you can e-mail them to order.