DIY sodium nitrate, is there any advice/calcs for dosing automatically?

[BryanM]

Essentially my algae turf scrubber is more efficient at removing nitrates than it is phosphates. My last test was 6.6, a couple weeks prior it was 1.something, which I dosed 80ml of the solution I had made to bring it up approx 10 points (210 gallons).

I'm looking to automate this adding it to one of my dosers, but i'm not sure how much I should add daily or how to figure that out. I'd like to keep it around 15.

 

[KrisReef]

Well, the "easy way" is to add a tiny KNOWN amount of your stock solution (you didn't say what concentration it might be?) and then measure the increase in the tank. Once you know the impact, you can adjust (slowly) the increment, remeasure and observe the outcome PPM. Should be similar to adjusting a calcium reactor. The results are dynamic in a living system GO Slow, and becareful at first to not over shoot the target.

RHF would give a better (more precise) answer, but the proof is in the pudding.

 

[BryanM]

Well, the "easy way" is to add a tiny KNOWN amount of your stock solution (you didn't say what concentration it might be?) and then measure the increase in the tank. Once you know the impact, you can adjust (slowly) the increment, remeasure and observe the outcome PPM. Should be similar to adjusting a calcium reactor. The results are dynamic in a living system GO Slow, and becareful at first to not over shoot the target.

RHF would give a better (more precise) answer, but the proof is in the pudding.

I add 80ml to raise it by roughly 10ppm.

 

[KrisReef]

How long does the tank hold the increase? Seems like a doser set at 40 ml/day would be safe to start, and measure results daily, adjusting up or down depending on where the tank lands.

I presume you are hoping to arrive at a constant drip that keeps Nitrates at a detectable level? I have needed to set up a doser for this very purpose for awhile, but I have been to lazy myself. The corals aren't as happy as they could be....

Shame on me.

 

[KrisReef]

The other thought, that I probably should mention, is that phosphate metabolic consumption is linked to nitrate consumption. Adding nitrates could improve phosphate uptake, so keep an eye on both!

 

[exnisstech]

Maybe look into ammonium dosing instead? I put ammonium bicarb on a doser recently when I moved out of my RS 300. I've dosed nitrate but I seem to be able to keep my NO3 test results more consistent with ammonium. Also it could be my imagination my I think my coral respond better ro ammonium vs dosing nitrate.

You've probably seen it but I'll post it.
MiamiReef put together a nice dosing formula using Randy's recipe.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-ammonia-dosing-chart.1123913/

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Here’s a calculator. Unde the entry for nitrate from potassium nitrate, and then use 0.84 times the amount needed.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210108112936/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm

 

[BryanM]

Is there a benefit for ammonium bicarbonate in a mostly lps system with just a few sps?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Corals prefer it over nitrate, as best I can tel from various studies. Whether that results in an improvement for any particular coral (any type, including soft corals) is less apparent.

But I dose it.

 

[BryanM]

I guess I am going to go down this rabbit hole today.

I'm not sure I can read through 88 pages of that thread however!

It is more than a little mind bending that we chant "Zero ammonia", yet here we are basically dosing it.

 

[EnterName]

I guess I am going to go down this rabbit hole today.

I'm not sure I can read through 88 pages of that thread however!

No need to read through all of it: 20g ammonium bicarbonate (food or pharmaceutical grade) optional 5g urea. Everything dissolved in approx. 1L RO/DI and you are good to go.

Don't add more than 2.3mL per 100L / 26gal at once and you will stay under 0.1ppm ammonia. I'm pretty sure you can go significantly higher without causing issues, but this is the suggested "limit" and listening to Randy is in general a good idea

I personally add 2mL to my 171gal tank every hour using a dosing pump. This way the ammonia introduction is low and evenly spread throughout the day just like it would be if I had more livestock in my tank. If your dosing pump isn't very precise you can dilute the solution and dose more or simply double the amount and dose less frequently as long as you keep the maximum amount to add at once in mind.

It is more than a little mind bending that we chant "Zero ammonia", yet here we are basically dosing it.

People also chant to add more livestock of food to increase nutrients, which is also increases ammonia and other substances that would be considered "unwanted" or "dangerous" at certain levels. So: no need to worry

 

[BryanM]

Maybe look into ammonium dosing instead? I put ammonium bicarb on a doser recently when I moved out of my RS 300. I've dosed nitrate but I seem to be able to keep my NO3 test results more consistent with ammonium. Also it could be my imagination my I think my coral respond better ro ammonium vs dosing nitrate.

You've probably seen it but I'll post it.
MiamiReef put together a nice dosing formula using Randy's recipe.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-ammonia-dosing-chart.1123913/

I thought all your tanks were already high nutrients, but maybe I'm remembering wrong and you have a mix.

In any case from what I'm reading they are suggesting its only appropriate for ultra low nutrient systems....

 

[commod0re]

the proof is in the pudding.

Not to be nitpicky but, the saying is supposed to be “the proof in the pudding is in the eating”

 

[exnisstech]

I thought all your tanks were already high nutrients, but maybe I'm remembering wrong and you have a mix.

In any case from what I'm reading they are suggesting its only appropriate for ultra low nutrient systems....

My reefer SPS tank runs low but I guess technically it would be considered an ULN nutrient system. I'll accept any result except zero as normal lol.

PS I've been dosing 20ml of the ammonium bicarb recipe daily for a few weeks after moving in to the new tank but cut it back to 10ml today when NO3 exceeded 10 ppm.

 

[exnisstech]

Not to be nitpicky but, the saying is supposed to be “the proof in the pudding is in the eating”

That must be the long version lol I always heard Kris's shorter version around here.

 

[KrisReef]

Not to be nitpicky but, the saying is supposed to be “the proof in the pudding is in the eating”

No, it is an interesting point!

especially with regard to this thread on nutrients:


AI Overview

Sodium nitrate is not an ingredient in sweet, dessert-style puddings. If you are seeing sodium nitrate mentioned in connection with the word "pudding," it refers to savory meat dishes like black pudding

or
white pudding
(blood sausages) or novelty meat products like
Spam Figgy Pudding

I generally avoid cured meats that are stuffed with nitrates, but I do love my Jello Pudding.

Blame Bill Cosby and the advertising folks who polluted Saturday morning cartoons with those ads.

 

[commod0re]

No, it is an interesting point!

especially with regard to this thread on nutrients:


AI Overview

Sodium nitrate is not an ingredient in sweet, dessert-style puddings. If you are seeing sodium nitrate mentioned in connection with the word "pudding," it refers to savory meat dishes like black pudding

or
white pudding
(blood sausages) or novelty meat products like
Spam Figgy Pudding

I generally avoid cured meats that are stuffed with nitrates, but I do love my Jello Pudding.

Blame Bill Cosby and the advertising folks who polluted Saturday morning cartoons with those ads.

 

[KrisReef]

This is an interesting time for a hijack

 

[BryanM]

btw, in this thread with the ammonium bicarbonate recipe:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-ammonia-dosing-chart.1123913/

It says: "20 g ammonium bicarbonate in 1 L of freshwater."

I have to assume it is meant to be RODI water, but someone might think tap water is fine.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

btw, in this thread with the ammonium bicarbonate recipe:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-ammonia-dosing-chart.1123913/

It says: "20 g ammonium bicarbonate in 1 L of freshwater."

I have to assume it is meant to be RODI water, but someone might think tap water is fine.

Ro/di or distilled is preferred. :)