DIY stand, leveling problem

[wickette]

So I'm copying the many guides here and all over the web on aquarium stands. Ive hit a road block, which may or may not be a real issue.

Ive got the frames built, all the wood cut. The uprights dont come out snug on both edges (see picture bellow). Regardless of why*, rebuilding did not help. I watched The King of DIY's video closely, his uprights aren't snug either so maybe it doesnt matter?
It seems important for load distribution, should I use shims? Cut 1/8" styrofoam, or a yoga mat to go between the frame and uprights? wood glue? silicone? or just give up?

*Theories on why this is happening: Maybe The floor itself is too wavey causing the bottom 2x4's frame to very slightly shift (like 0.1mm). Maybe cutting longer 2x4's with a table saw has just enough wobble that the cuts arent quite 90°, more like 89.95°. Maybe construction grade 2x4s are never going to be perfect. Maybe a combo of those things... I cant get a better fit than this with the power tools and workspace I have. So if there isnt a fix, I have to quite.

 

[JDnKY]

The front upright piece isn’t square. Tap it with a hammer until it lines up with the top and bottom frame before securing it to the frame.

 

[cracker]

Hello wickette , On the uprights, it's an easy fix . I personally would tapwooden shims to fill the spaces. When cutting the 2by4 lengths it's very important to get them all the same lengths,or as close as possible with what You have on hand.

 

[wickette]

The front upright piece isn’t square. Tap it with a hammer until it lines up with the top and bottom frame before securing it to the frame.

I swung them out to show the non-tight spots. They will swing back in with a flick of the the finger, doesnt need a hammer, that's the problem.

Hello wickette , On the uprights, it's an easy fix . I personally would tapwooden shims to fill the spaces. When cutting the 2by4 lengths it's very important to get them all the same lengths,or as close as possible with what You have on hand.

Theyre exactly the same length (used a table saw), probably not perfectly square. I can put in shims in under a corner of each of the 8 supports, wood glue them in, is that safe?.

 

[Crustaceon]

My diy stand has wooden shims here and there for that reason. The fact is, 2x4’s can have a curve to them and it’ll show on the edges once cut, even if done on a table saw. I just slathered some shims with wood glue, tapped those suckers into the gaps and it hasn’t been an issue. It’s been a few years and nothing has budged and i’m thoroughly convinced my stand could hold twice the weight of the 100 gallon tank that sits on it.

 

[cracker]

Sounds good to me !

 

[wickette]

My diy stand has wooden shims here and there for that reason. The fact is, 2x4’s can have a curve to them and it’ll show on the edges once cut, even if done on a table saw. I just slathered some shims with wood glue, tapped those suckers into the gaps and it hasn’t been an issue. It’s been a few years and nothing has budged and i’m thoroughly convinced my stand could hold twice the weight of the 100 gallon tank that sits on it.

Ok good, thanks, just needed to hear it from 2 people to feel ok about it. Trivial question but last thing, did you make shims out of the same wood for the stand, use hardware store wood shims (cedar).

p.s. I cant use them for my issue because i need a small wedge. But usually, roofing shingles make great aquarium shims for leveling an aquarium stand, or compensating for a short post. Dirt cheap, thin, pliable, easy to cut to shape, high friction coefficient (wont slip out), water proof, shock absorbing, and greater crush strength than wood.

p.s.s. If you only used 8 2x4's to support the frame, and 4 screws in each corner, those materials alone can hold 7,500lbs. That's if the stand is 26-48" tall, just over 4,000 lbs if the stand 8ft tall .
Load bearing is never an issue with these stands, just torsion from uneven load, with an aquarium its easy to tell by looking at the water line.

 

[ccombs]

It has been answered, but use shims.

With any wood, especially soft woods, they bow and cup and curve depending on humidity and other exterior factors. Surprisingly, wood is a very 'fluid' piece of building material. Any piece of wood furniture or wood floor expands and contracts and moves. This is why professional woodworkers use traditional joinery and glue over something like pocket hole joinery. This traditional joinery moves with the piece.

Sorry for the rant, just like sharing knowledge haha.

All that to say, your straight pieces of wood are either not as straight as you think, or when you cut them, that released some tension in the board and they slightly warped. It is very common and if you shim it up you should be good.

I just buy either cedar shims or composite shims from the store.

 

[touchstone88]

So I'm copying the many guides here and all over the web on aquarium stands. Ive hit a road block, which may or may not be a real issue.

Ive got the frames built, all the wood cut. The uprights dont come out snug on both edges (see picture bellow). Regardless of why*, rebuilding did not help. I watched The King of DIY's video closely, his uprights aren't snug either so maybe it doesnt matter?
It seems important for load distribution, should I use shims? Cut 1/8" styrofoam, or a yoga mat to go between the frame and uprights? wood glue? silicone? or just give up?

*Theories on why this is happening: Maybe The floor itself is too wavey causing the bottom 2x4's frame to very slightly shift (like 0.1mm). Maybe cutting longer 2x4's with a table saw has just enough wobble that the cuts arent quite 90°, more like 89.95°. Maybe construction grade 2x4s are never going to be perfect. Maybe a combo of those things... I cant get a better fit than this with the power tools and workspace I have. So if there isnt a fix, I have to quite.

For what it's worth, I've built three stands, two out of 2x4's and the successful one (planar level) is 1x4's joined with pocket joints. There are several reasons your 2x4's don't line up. They could've warped during the time you've brought them from the store, cut them and screwed them. Another, if you didn't countersynch (similar idea as pocket joints) your screws, the 2x4's move slightly as its drilled, resulting in the 'wonky' joints.

I talked to many folks about my predicament- before building with 1x4's. The common response was: "Houses are built out of 2x4's,". Pocket joints are STRONG. Use a couple clamps, wood glue and a Kreg jig and you'll have a stand you can trust with no hinky areas.

The white stand is for my 29g.

Yes it hurt... the last 2x4 stand turned out beautifully, but it wasn't planar level because I didn't drill pilot holes and used 2x4s, it weighed almost 100lbs when finished... didn't trust it.

 

[wickette]

Looks like the wood is poorly cut or as said, warped as is dried. Its got all sorts of random imperfections. I made some changes, fewer/smaller loose spots, less shimming needed.

Black frame is what is should look like, red is the random issues i found. A single piece sits flat, but once attached the issues add up.

So I took it apart, used the table saw as a planer, made the frame flatter (left-shaved flat, right unused 2x4)

And I got some shims out of the process

 

[touchstone88]

Looks like the wood is poorly cut or as said, warped as is dried. Its got all sorts of random imperfections. I made some changes, fewer/smaller loose spots, less shimming needed.

Black frame is what is should look like, red is the random issues i found. A single piece sits flat, but once attached the issues add up.

So I took it apart, used the table saw as a planer, made the frame flatter (left-shaved flat, right unused 2x4)

And I got some shims out of the process

Splendiferous!
I didn't mean to add to the uncertainty factor- the folks who replied are definitely more knowledgeable- I only chimed in because the frustration and uncertainty when building a stand is terrible lol.
Looks like you've got some shims to work with- don't spare the woodglue!

I've been struggling with a solution to dampen vibration in my display tank (steel stand+old bootlegger's house+hardwood floors), roofing shingles sound brilliant! (no pun intended)

Nice piece!

 

[wickette]

Splendiferous!
I didn't mean to add to the uncertainty factor- the folks who replied are definitely more knowledgeable- I only chimed in because the frustration and uncertainty when building a stand is terrible lol.
Looks like you've got some shims to work with- don't spare the woodglue!

I've been struggling with a solution to dampen vibration in my display tank (steel stand+old bootlegger's house+hardwood floors), roofing shingles sound brilliant! (no pun intended)

There's also silicone baking mats if you want the thinnest thing

Nice piece!

I have a cheap metal stand for my 40 breeder, the top isnt flush, that buttom isnt adjustable. I use this stuff under the stand (4 cut pads), I also use is it between the stand and the tank (1" strip around the rim so no chance of touching the glass). If you just want dampening (or self leveling) its great.

I bought that specific brand, with the weight of a 40B the pads sink in maybe 1/16" of an inch, durable stuff. I bought the harbor freight version for the tank Im building, havent tested how it compares.


(old old photo of when I was building that)

 

[wickette]

(photo from above not appearing, here it is again)

 

[wickette]

Ive got another question. The posts are in nice and tight now. How off level do you consider acceptable.

I put the tank on the unfinished stand, filled it past the bottom rim (2-ish gallons). The Left/Right (4ft long width) is level. The front is 1/8" higher than the back.

 

[ludnix]

I would try to reduce that 1/8th difference if possible now while there is still no water but I doubt that much is will be an issue.

 

[touchstone88]

Ive got another question. The posts are in nice and tight now. How off level do you consider acceptable.

I put the tank on the unfinished stand, filled it past the bottom rim (2-ish gallons). The Left/Right (4ft long width) is level. The front is 1/8" higher than the back.

I always cut a piece of 1" ply for the tank to rest on- just tack it to the stand.
However, if several points/2x4's are higher/lower resulting in the 1/8" gap- shim under the 1" ply on top the stand, so the rim rests along the plywood ****NO SHIMS directly UNDER THE RIM**** (or rebuild for peace of mind- but that's just me).

 

[wickette]

Are the corners flush?
I always cut a piece of 1" ply for the tank to rest on- just tack it to the stand.
However, if several points/2x4's are higher/lower resulting in the 1/8" gap- shim under the 1" ply on top the stand, so the rim rests along the plywood ****NO SHIMS directly UNDER THE RIM**** (or rebuild for peace of mind- but that's just me).

For what its worth, I have a 1/16-1/32" slight bow in the middle of the top (lengthwise) of my 29g QT/Backup tank. The rim of the tank rests flush on all corners and from front to back. I haven't shimmed it because its so slight im afraid of causing uneven pressure under the rim. It hasn't been a problem, but it's only a 29g with barely any livestock/rock

The stand is flush and level on a level surface (ie my work bench).

The hardwood planks on the living room floor are not flat/level. Both the foam mat and the floor under the frame will sink a little, might self level with a full 75gallon tank on it for a few days (might not).

The top frame is not attached to anything yet s0 adding shims over the front uprights is easy to do now, but might be completely unnecessary or not enough or even cause the tank to lean/stand to the opposite way under load.

So if 1/8" difference in level not enough force to cause a problem for a few weeks, I rather not level it until Im sure nothing will shift.

 

[touchstone88]

The stand is flush and level on a level surface (ie my work bench).

The hardwood planks on the living room floor are not flat/level. Both the foam mat and the floor under the frame will sink a little, might self level with a full 75gallon tank on it for a few days (might not).

The top frame is not attached to anything yet s0 adding shims over the front uprights is easy to do now, but might be completely unnecessary or not enough or even cause the tank to lean/stand to the opposite way under load.

So if 1/8" difference in level not enough force to cause a problem for a few weeks, I rather not level it until Im sure nothing will shift.

Sounds good- I misunderstood. People suggest neoprene for rimless or acrylic tanks, but foam could cause uneven settling when you get sand and rock in place. It'll take that stand a year or two to settle. But as long as the rim is flush, your'e good imo

 

[wickette]

Sounds good- I misunderstood. People suggest neoprene for rimless or acrylic tanks, but foam could cause uneven settling when you get sand and rock in place. It'll take that stand a year or two to settle. But as long as the rim is flush, your'e good imo

I just measured my 40Breeder on the sane joist. This has started leaning almost 1/8" in the other dimension, the new tank maybe level in that spot.


off topiv, my tank isn't rimless, the plywood I got is 1" short. Should I forget about the plywood, OR use it in 3 pieces?

 

[ludnix]

I had the same issue and left a 1" gap in the center to keeps the ends supported. It certainly wasn't ideal but the tank lived on that for 10 years through some major earthquakes and didnt have any issues.