Do I really need the full Apex system or is the Apex EL enough?

[Leon Gorani]

I wanted to finally get an Apex to take control of may tank. I do not really need the ORP or salinity checkers that are on the regular apex system. But I do want to be able to get the trident later on to test my water and then also get the dosers for when I need them. Do I actually need to buy the more expensive regular Apex or can I use all of the other add on elements with the Apex EL version? Thanks

 

[ariellemermaid]

I wanted to finally get an Apex to take control of may tank. I do not really need the ORP or salinity checkers that are on the regular apex system. But I do want to be able to get the trident later on to test my water and then also get the dosers for when I need them. Do I actually need to buy the more expensive regular Apex or can I use all of the other add on elements with the Apex EL version? Thanks

I did a lot of research and the cost difference isn’t insignificant. What I found on here and other forums is that the salinity probe seems to be the least reliable and gives people the most headaches. Also from what I’ve read the ORP data is really only useful if you’re considering running ozone (someone please correct me if there’s a different game-changing use for this).

In terms of salinity, assuming you get good reliable data, a case can definitely be made for that. An older former-Reefer friend lost his 300g probably $20K tank to a faulty ATO (had some kind of drain to waste emergency overflow so no flooding, SW just kept getting replaced with FW). Realtime salinity could have provided early warning and prevented this.

However, IMO this can be prevented using other means. Apex time-limited programming on either the ATK pump or just the ATO outlet watts (Tunze and others already have time-limited programming built in). High water sensor on the sump (does require a $99 module to support that but also can protect against other failures like clogged overflows, etc.). In my friend’s case, never rely on a simple float valve alone to begin with. Limit the total RO water available, etc., etc. I’ve found salinity to be incredibly stable under normal conditions and checking it every few weeks to once a month always reveals nothing to do.

So for my setup I bought 2 EL’s (DT and coral QT) and I’m comfortable with my failsafes. Better than having a questionable probe I constantly need to calibrate, and another probe I don’t even have a use for. All for shelling out a few extra hundred dollars that could go elsewhere.

To directly answer your question: the ONLY significant difference between the two is those two extra probes. Everything else is identical. And, you can even add those probes later if you want by buying the appropriate module and probes (but this probably costs a little extra over the full Apex purchase price). Trident, optical sensor module, every other module, no problems. I’m not saying don’t buy the full Apex; it’s the Cadillac model. But running the cost benefit analysis for myself led me to the EL’s.

 

[kindafun]

I have the EL and a Trident connected to it. They work seemlessly together.

 

[Leon Gorani]

I did a lot of research and the cost difference isn’t insignificant. What I found on here and other forums is that the salinity probe seems to be the least reliable and gives people the most headaches. Also from what I’ve read the ORP data is really only useful if you’re considering running ozone (someone please correct me if there’s a different game-changing use for this).

In terms of salinity, assuming you get good reliable data, a case can definitely be made for that. An older former-Reefer friend lost his 300g probably $20K tank to a faulty ATO (had some kind of drain to waste emergency overflow so no flooding, SW just kept getting replaced with FW). Realtime salinity could have provided early warning and prevented this.

However, IMO this can be prevented using other means. Apex time-limited programming on either the ATK pump or just the ATO outlet watts (Tunze and others already have time-limited programming built in). High water sensor on the sump (does require a $99 module to support that but also can protect against other failures like clogged overflows, etc.). In my friend’s case, never rely on a simple float valve alone to begin with. Limit the total RO water available, etc., etc. I’ve found salinity to be incredibly stable under normal conditions and checking it every few weeks to once a month always reveals nothing to do.

So for my setup I bought 2 EL’s (DT and coral QT) and I’m comfortable with my failsafes. Better than having a questionable probe I constantly need to calibrate, and another probe I don’t even have a use for. All for shelling out a few extra hundred dollars that could go elsewhere.

To directly answer your question: the ONLY significant difference between the two is those two extra probes. Everything else is identical. And, you can even add those probes later if you want by buying the appropriate module and probes (but this probably costs a little extra over the full Apex purchase price). Trident, optical sensor module, every other module, no problems. I’m not saying don’t buy the full Apex; it’s the Cadillac model. But running the cost benefit analysis for myself led me to the EL’s.

Hi wow thank you very much for that info and research! I’ve never had issues with extra ro water, I only use a 5 gallon reservoir, or auto top off problems but yes I see where that might happen to anyone. I did read that the salinity probe is in accurate sometimes also like you said, so yeah that’s why I didn’t really want it. And yeah it is way overpriced just for those two extra probes haha. Thanks! I think I will go for the EL’s.

 

[Leon Gorani]

I have the EL and a Trident connected to it. They work seemlessly together.

Sweet thanks! Glad to get the okay from someone that has actually done it!

 

[Gtinnel]

To directly answer your question: the ONLY significant difference between the two is those two extra probes.

You also don't get the 0-10v ports on the EL.

OP, I agree if you don't care about salinity, ORP and 0-10v control (which all of those can be added with modules to the EL) then the EL should be fine for what you want.

 

[Sean Clark]

EL is a great starting point. You can always expand later.

 

[Leon Gorani]

You also don't get the 0-10v ports on the EL.

OP, I agree if you don't care about salinity, ORP and 0-10v control (which all of those can be added with modules to the EL) then the EL should be fine for what you want.

Sorry to ask but what are those 0-10v ports used for? Are they for lighting control?
I don’t know anything about Apex lol. Thanks!

 

[Gtinnel]

Sorry to ask but what are those 0-10v ports used for? Are they for lighting control?
I don’t know anything about Apex lol. Thanks!

Yes there are certain pumps and lights that can be controlled with the apex. Basically the apex sends out a signal ranging anywhere from 0 volts to 10 volts to allow it to change the pumps speed or intensity of lights.

It's just a control signal for certain devices.

 

[Tuffyyyyy]

I have the EL and a Trident connected to it. They work seemlessly together.

This is where I ended up as well. my logic was that my system is 160 gallons of total water volume, my salinity wasn’t going to change enough to justify it. Especially with my ATO going (and I have the apex ATO as well so I’d have alerts there).

 

[ariellemermaid]

Yes there are certain pumps and lights that can be controlled with the apex. Basically the apex sends out a signal ranging anywhere from 0 volts to 10 volts to allow it to change the pumps speed or intensity of lights.

It's just a control signal for certain devices.

I had forgotten this because it wasn’t relevant to me. I see little value in controlling pump power via apex when most have their own apps and/or manual controls if needed. Same thing with lights; most lights these days have their own controls that you can dial in really specifically (color plus intensity). So 0-10V just isn’t something I’ve personally found a critical use for in a controller but I could certainly make some up. And as mentioned, if felt to be critical to the operation, could be added with add-on modules.

If you want varied pump output throughout the day you can do that with a lot of pumps on the market via an app. In terms of something like a water change though I just made a virtual switch to turn off the things I want off, you can even set delays (like when you’re refilling you might want all the pumps to turn back on before the ATO system). All without 0-10V. But, not at all to say that I couldn’t find uses for it.

 

[Gtinnel]

I had forgotten this because it wasn’t relevant to me. I see little value in controlling pump power via apex when most have their own apps and/or manual controls if needed. Same thing with lights; most lights these days have their own controls that you can dial in really specifically (color plus intensity). So 0-10V just isn’t something I’ve personally found a critical use for in a controller but I could certainly make some up. And as mentioned, if felt to be critical to the operation, could be added with add-on modules.

If you want varied pump output throughout the day you can do that with a lot of pumps on the market via an app. In terms of something like a water change though I just made a virtual switch to turn off the things I want off, you can even set delays (like when you’re refilling you might want all the pumps to turn back on before the ATO system). All without 0-10V. But, not at all to say that I couldn’t find uses for it.

I don't use the 0-10v ports currently either, but I just wanted to make sure to point it out because it may be a deciding factor for someone else.
I actually do allow my apex to control the speed of some of my powerheads, but I don't need 0-10v because I'm using WAV pumps. I wish it could control my cheap jebao gyres, but unfortunately it's not an option afaik.

 

[paulgriffin971]

Depending on how big your system is, the Apex EL is about right for everything you'll want to do. I have both, the EL and the full version with the Trident. I will only buy the EL versions from now on--as long as they don't come out with something extra that I absolutely have to have in the full version in the future and I'm upgrading. I can get away with checking salinity with a refractometer.

If I were you, I would just buy the EL version and another energy bar. That way you can control anything you want through the Apex app, and won't be limited to just 8 power slots. A bonus to doing this is that the older power strips are 100% compatible with the new "orange" power banks. So, if you buy the EL version, you can jsut find a used Apex energy bar and it'll work with your new one through a USB cable.

You can always add modules later if you really decide you need them, but my personal opinion is that the only extra module you'll maybe want is a leak detector module, and a Tident later on. And....if you really need the salinity probe.

In your position, I'd buy the EL version, pick up a used energy bar, and then buy the neptune WAV pumps with your left over money. The WAV powerheads plug right into the new energy bar without tieing up a power plug, and you can control them with the Apex app. A plus too: they're actually adjsutable unlike the overpriced Ecotech MP's have much stronger magnets, and reliable unlike some of the other powerheads out there.

 

[131696]

Don't need it at all ,keep it simple ,remember if the brain dies your tank will suffer, 1 device to control the whole tank 1 device has problems,1 tank has problems,keep it simple test yourself ,get to know your tank more hands on is best.

 

[ariellemermaid]

Depending on how big your system is, the Apex EL is about right for everything you'll want to do. I have both, the EL and the full version with the Trident. I will only buy the EL versions from now on--as long as they don't come out with something extra that I absolutely have to have in the full version in the future and I'm upgrading. I can get away with checking salinity with a refractometer.

If I were you, I would just buy the EL version and another energy bar. That way you can control anything you want through the Apex app, and won't be limited to just 8 power slots.

Pro tip I didn’t know when I bought my second EL. The energy bar 832 is $290 but if all you need is 4-8 controllable power outlets then consider the EB4 or EB8 ($120-180) additions instead. The 832 has 1-link connectors for things like Wav pumps as where it doesn’t look like the other EB’s do, but I could have saved at least $90 if I’d known these other options existed at the time.

 

[ariellemermaid]

Don't need it at all ,keep it simple ,remember if the brain dies your tank will suffer, 1 device to control the whole tank 1 device has problems,1 tank has problems,keep it simple test yourself ,get to know your tank more hands on is best.

Not exactly the place for this comment but I’ll bite. There’s definitely something to be said for hands on attention, however, a controller is only what you do with it. It has tremendous possibility for monitoring functions, and let’s face it, you can’t be home 24/7 (but if you are, congrats!). It can provide fail-safes for other systems that are very common failures/tank crashers (like a failed heater controller trying to nuke the tank). Testing chemistry at exactly the same time of day in the most objective way possible is great for stability, and the Trident delivers that. So sure a tank controller can fail or have issues as well, but its cloud-connected nature, monitoring, and alarms would let you know if there’s a problem you need to check on. In that way, I feel a good tank controller is a way to keep MORE hands-on moment to moment information about the tank. Not less.

 

[ariellemermaid]

In your position, I'd buy the EL version, pick up a used energy bar, and then buy the neptune WAV pumps with your left over money. The WAV powerheads plug right into the new energy bar without tieing up a power plug, and you can control them with the Apex app. A plus too: they're actually adjsutable unlike the overpriced Ecotech MP's have much stronger magnets, and reliable unlike some of the other powerheads out there.

I bought a used DOS pump. Let’s face it this tech is simple and way overpriced, but the best option too (similar to iPhone vs. android debate). Any way to save money is a better deal for sure, but some caution should be used. At least with the DOS I can replace the pump heads, some of the other stuff does have a certain useful life and if it powers critical equipment…I might be more inclined to new. But, that’s also the advantage of having 2 energy bars with critical equipment split between them.

I’m not so sure about the WAV’s though. A thread I’ve been following for my new build says his WAV’s are louder than any other powerheads he’s owned (MP’s, gyres, etc.). How have you found them? I’m pretty invested in Apex stuff at this point and it would be great if they’re good, but I’m not so sure now.

 

[paulgriffin971]

I’m not so sure about the WAV’s though. A thread I’ve been following for my new build says his WAV’s are louder than any other powerheads he’s owned (MP’s, gyres, etc.). How have you found them? I’m pretty invested in Apex stuff at this point and it would be great if they’re good, but I’m not so sure now.

No, they WAV's aren't loud at all. The opposite is true. My skimmer makes more noise. And they flow at like 4000gph, which is a LOT if you have them at 100%. At max power they only draw about 35watts. I have 2 of them on the back wall of my 165 gallon and there's PLENTY of flow. An added bonus is a pair of WAV's are $300-$400 cheaper than just one MP40 or MP60.

I think the neatest thing about them, aside from actually being adjustable and having strong magnets, is they can be infinitely controlled through the Apex app itself--an all-in-one solution. You don;t have to have a separate controller for each pump, and two different power bricks with power plugs. Stick them in the tank, plug them into the 24v Apex powerbank holes, sync them with your Apex system, and then control them. They'll easily make gyre waves, mirror flow, pulse modes, etc. I personally can't recommend them enough and wish I had them all along.

It was a price difference that sold me originally, but after seeing the features, the minimal cables, the adjust-ability, and the flow you get with them, I feel like I'm actually using something from the year 2022.

I give them a solid 9/10. 9 only because they're a little more comprehensive to take apart to clean with a toothbrush. Run them in a bucket of citirc acid to clean--easy 10/10.

 

[blaxsun]

The full version is worth it for the salinity probe. The ORP probe is an added bonus. Sudden changes in either are usually good (early) indicators that something is amiss. Yes, you can upgrade later - but you do have to wire an extra module up.