Do people overexaggerate tangs

[i cant think]

I skipped most of this post after the first few, but Tangs do not have to be mean, aggressive or ich magnets. They need fed, have room to hide (like disappear into some rock and not some man-made "caves and arches" that people like so that they cannot really hide) and have an established tank with some real rock or sand that can devour some parasites when/if they fall off of the fish. I have had clown, shoah, 2 blacks, 3 purples, sailfin, chocolate and a few yellows all on a tank and they got along wonderfully, but they all were well fed and had room - FWIW, the blacks, 2 purples, sailfin and the yellows were known coral eaters as they got larger.

Think of tangs like the idiots on reality TV shows... probably perfectly normal under normal circumstances, but stimulate them, don't let them get away for a while and undernourish them and they turn into internet memes and punchlines.

I agree with this although age also has a huge matter with aggression. Along with if it’s already established, I have managed 5 fish and this 6th is the riskiest (Flashing tilefish) with my blue eye kole. My other 5 fish were wrasse, no care in the world (Last time I added a fish was a 0.5” indo Lubbock in September/august). It usually lowers aggression instantly after the first feeding though.

 

[jda]

IMO, the reason that larger tangs get more aggressive is because people don't increase the feedings enough. This can be a hard in a reef tank where you might need to use 5 lbs of NLS pellets in addition to kilos frozen food ever few months to keep them and angels fed - this can be a lot to export (I know, I do it). Tangs should be growing... at least until they are mostly full sized. They should always be fat and not fighting at feeding time or any other time. Even large tangs are not eating coral, they are not always reef friendly with the larger amount of food they require and waste they produce.

BTW - I also don't believe in the "same body type" thing. Never seen it matter at all when their other needs are met.

 

[i cant think]

IMO, the reason that larger tangs get more aggressive is because people don't increase the feedings enough. This can be a hard in a reef tank where you might need to use 5 lbs of NLS pellets in addition to kilos frozen food ever few months to keep them and angels fed - this can be a lot to export (I know, I do it). Tangs should be growing... at least until they are mostly full sized. They should always be fat and not fighting at feeding time or any other time. Even large tangs are not eating coral, they are not always reef friendly with the larger amount of food they require and waste they produce.

BTW - I also don't believe in the "same body type" thing. Never seen it matter at all when their other needs are met.

The same body type bit I think comes into play with the “Powder” tangs (A. Leucosternon, Achilles, nigricans, japonicus). Not so much the rest, I have found the powder tangs have been less aggressive around Zebrasoma/Ctenochaetus tangs. This is where they’re all fat and healthy but go after fish with similar body shapes (But I mean, they’ll go after any new fish that was added after they’re established). Often to me when they start chasing other fish constantly it just says maybe the tank is too small, if it’s like one tail slap every few days/weeks then it just says to me that’s him showing his dominance to that fish and just putting it back in its place. The only time I have believed in the different body shape was mixing two tangs from different genera (Hippo and a scopas). I accidentally killed both fish in an ammonia spike when the tank was cycling (Don’t use old sand in a new tank). If I could change anything with my new tank it would be to change the tang to a white tail for the nicer appearance however the Blue Eye Kole is certainly different due to the blue ring on its eye and the rest are all yellow rings.

 

[Kona Diver]

Honestly, I find people under exaggerate the tank size for their tangs. Yes some refuse to use the whole tank however when you see dinner plate sized tangs in 6’ tanks… **** me. I hate trying to say their tank is too small however it’s the truth. I find Achilles and both PBT’s/PGT’s to be very active and beyond aggressive. NEVER will I try like 5 fish with a PBT tang in a 4’ tank. Yes rockwork plays a huge role in this behaviour but I’m sorry, have you even seen how much tangs swim in the wild? It’s crazy! They’re along the reefs all day long almost never stopping their movements. I find many tangs in 6’ tanks and it’s upsetting when they’re like 6” and pacing but it’s said to be a normal behaviour. To me, when a fish stays on one side it’s a red flag of something being wrong with the other side of the tank (Most likely not enough o2).
A healthy tang will use every inch of tank they’re given, an unhealthy one or stressed one won’t do this.
I find tangs should have bigger and longer tanks. I always think “6’ for this tang minimum, so 8’ should have it be comfortable”. From that description of your tang it’s just staying at the side… Thats pacing, and that is never normal in any fish.

That’s most fish we keep though, not just tangs.
The general rule is as the fish gets older/larger, it’s range increases or habitat shifts all together. This applies to many types of wrasse, tangs, butterflies etc. Most reef fish recruit in the coral thickets out in deeper water where they stay put in a very small footprint. As they age, if they survive, this changes. They start to roam more and many move in to the shallow/surge zone, abandoning where they settled as larvae.

Even dwarf angelfish harems will carve out a territory larger than any common reef tank. Fairy wrasse colonies would need a massive tank if you wanted to simulate how they live in the wild.
Only the most cryptic or sedentary of species generally have small territories similar in size to an average example of reef aquaria (like trimma)

The larger fish travel around more out of necessity, than desire. Wider range of habitat to locate larger quantities of food, searching out a compatible mate to reproduce, finding companions to group up with as a defensive mechanism. Honestly, I don’t see any reef tanks that simulate the natural conditions of their wild counterparts, and that’s almost ANY type of fish.(maybe gobies or the like)That being said, people need to take a deep breath,don’t fret,and realize that doesn’t mean we are doing something improper, as what is provided is a great alternative and the fish tend to do well. Many fish don’t need to roam when their food source is provided. Many fish don’t need to group up when they’re not engaged in daily warfare with others. There are mitigating factors and the fish adapt.

 

[Shooter6]

Again, the factors above could still lead to a tank that has insufficient O2 levels for a PBT to thrive. It’s questionable that skimmers actually oxygenate water the way we think they do, even CO2 scrubbers are debatable atm and short of ending up with more water out than in your tank, we’re not replicating the conditions on reef crests, no matter how much we try, and for darn sure in a 120. The only things that would definitively increase oxygenation would be surface tension (4x2 isn’t all that large a surface to begin with) and a refugium (OP is free to share pics, which is what should have been done in the first place). All we can run with is assumptions here anyway as mentioned in brackets earlier Re pics.

I don’t want to be a wet blanket here, but like I said we just aren’t likely to meet a tangs needs in most systems, we just need to do what we can to make sure we’re doing right by the fish! That can be an upsize or exit strategy once the tang is too big. More of a PSA here than anything.

We’ve all seen these sorts of questions before, and much more often than not they’re followed with ‘what’s wrong with my fish’ or ‘is this ich’ or simply, ‘Help’ threads or posts on Facebook. I’m not saying that OP falls into this, as they’ve done well enough to keep both the PBT and purple alive for a year.

But when you get a ‘wrong’ rather than any photo evidence to prove that the tank has been made an adequate setup for any acanthurus tang, you’re more likely to assume the worst, as much as you don’t want to.

Yes we seen these questions and the same regurgitated answers!

Skimmers adding 02 to the water is not debatable if you use common sense.

Surf crashing, waves breaking on surface add o2. Skimmers replicate this action. Removing co2 and adding o2. This is why people run calcium reactor effluent into the skimmer.

Surface agitation adding o2 will not compare to pumping a cylinder full of water and micro bubbles, think about the water contacting air in the cylinder vs the surface.

And still to repeat my point, if there's a lack of o2, it would by in the entire display ont in half of the tank, causing a tang to swim in one side which is your claim.

The truth is that tang is board, stressed, or using the glass as a treadmill, ever wonder why it's always on a side, not back wall? Glass is clear so swimming towards something they see in the room, nit a back wall that's blacked out, or a side against a wall.....

 

[i cant think]

Yes we seen these questions and the same regurgitated answers!

Skimmers adding 02 to the water is not debatable if you use common sense.

Surf crashing, waves breaking on surface add o2. Skimmers replicate this action. Removing co2 and adding o2. This is why people run calcium reactor effluent into the skimmer.

Surface agitation adding o2 will not compare to pumping a cylinder full of water and micro bubbles, think about the water contacting air in the cylinder vs the surface.

And still to repeat my point, if there's a lack of o2, it would by in the entire display ont in half of the tank, causing a tang to swim in one side which is your claim.

The truth is that tang is board, stressed, or using the glass as a treadmill, ever wonder why it's always on a side, not back wall? Glass is clear so swimming towards something they see in the room, nit a back wall that's blacked out, or a side against a wall.....

Ever look at a tang and think, “it’s a small fish! It’ll fit in my 32 gallon aquarium!” That is basically this but with a Powder Blue Tang in a 4’ tank, without photo evidence we have to assume the worst even when we don’t want to.

 

[Dave1993]

Ever look at a tang and think, “it’s a small fish! It’ll fit in my 32 gallon aquarium!” That is basically this but with a Powder Blue Tang in a 4’ tank, without photo evidence we have to assume the worst even when we don’t want to.

you should probs just focus on ur own fishes though as i seen your build thread before and have had quite a few fish deaths mean while i have had 0

 

[Shooter6]

Ever look at a tang and think, “it’s a small fish! It’ll fit in my 32 gallon aquarium!” That is basically this but with a Powder Blue Tang in a 4’ tank, without photo evidence we have to assume the worst even when we don’t want to.

As I said before I agree with most of your point, but also believe we need to make our case with factual information otherwise our point is just b.s.

The reasons I stated in my last post were the likely reasons a fish would be swimming as he stated.

If we are honest here, neither of us have seen a small pb put in a 4ft tank reach full size, their growth stops at around 5-6 inches. I won't say that is healthy for them but I've known people with 10 year old pb in a 4 ft display that appeared to be 100% healthy other then the stunted growth.

Now some other acanthurus continue to grow to full wild size, like the Atlantic blue, Clown ect.

Even my fowleri stopped growing once it hit about 7 inches with streamers, it was in a 6ft 180g for 3 years along with 10 other tangs.

Oh and in that system, I had a powder brown that would at times throughout the day do the swimming against the glass on 1 side, while the other 8 acanthurus were spread across the tank.

1 5" yellow
1 7' koi scopas
2 6" mimics
1 7" fowleri
1 7" lieutenant
1 6" lavander
1 5" convict
1 4" yellow eye Kyle
1 4" blue eye kole
1 5" white tail
1 8" foxface (not a tang but close)

2 Clown
8 blue chromis
6 talbot
1 purple psudochromis
2 vampire Gobi
1 diamond Gobi
1 mandarin.
A ton of snails, hermits peppermint emerald crab, fire shrimp ect.

 

[i cant think]

you should probs just focus on ur own fishes though as i seen your build thread before and have had quite a few fish deaths mean while i have had 0

If you saw it then you would’ve seen that was a rookie mistake 2 years ago where I accidentally used old sand in a new tank and had the option of trying to get water from across the country (2 hours away) to the tank the ammonia spiked in OR have the fish die from hypothermia so I took the risk of racing an ammonia spike for 2 hours over a bunch of fish with burns on. I have had 0 in this new stocking and trust me, death is a part of this hobby. You just have to learn to overcome the wallet issue, and I have to the point I now have 3 £100+ fish. The only other death that happened was because of a scopas tang and that has made me steer away from the Zebrasoma genus until I get a larger tank. I also avoid Achilles (No matter how much I want it) due to the 4’ tank being too small to have a healthy specimen IMO. I know there have been exceptions to this but that’s with people who truly know what they’re doing.

As I said before I agree with most of your point, but also believe we need to make our case with factual information otherwise our point is just b.s.

The reasons I stated in my last post were the likely reasons a fish would be swimming as he stated.

If we are honest here, neither of us have seen a small pb put in a 4ft tank reach full size, their growth stops at around 5-6 inches. I won't say that is healthy for them but I've known people with 10 year old pb in a 4 ft display that appeared to be 100% healthy other then the stunted growth.

Now some other acanthurus continue to grow to full wild size, like the Atlantic blue, Clown ect.

Even my fowleri stopped growing once it hit about 7 inches with streamers, it was in a 6ft 180g for 3 years along with 10 other tangs.

Oh and in that system, I had a powder brown that would at times throughout the day do the swimming against the glass on 1 side, while the other 8 acanthurus were spread across the tank.

1 5" yellow
1 7' koi scopas
2 6" mimics
1 7" fowleri
1 7" lieutenant
1 6" lavander
1 5" convict
1 4" yellow eye Kyle
1 4" blue eye kole
1 5" white tail
1 8" foxface (not a tang but close)

2 Clown
8 blue chromis
6 talbot
1 purple psudochromis
2 vampire Gobi
1 diamond Gobi
1 mandarin.
A ton of snails, hermits peppermint emerald crab, fire shrimp ect.

I agree that a PBT won’t reach max size 100% of the time due to stunted growth but even a 5-6” PBT in a 4’ tank still sounds bad - I have seen a 6” PBT in a 6’ tank… That to me is the bare minimum for these fish. I say bare minimum because this fish went from 1 side of the tank to the other side within 3 flaps of its fins. The tank size was a 6’x2.5’x2’ the owner of the shop said that she wanted to get a 7’ tank for the tang just to be happy (This was with a Yellow tang, Clownfish and a Marginalis butterflyfish, those guys were all hitting 4-5”).

 

[Dave1993]

if your tang was aggressive you probs weren't feeding enough my purple chases my midas blenny every now and again never tail swipes him also pretty hypocritical as u kept that tang in a 3 foot tank

 

[Zekireef]

Yes we seen these questions and the same regurgitated answers!

Skimmers adding 02 to the water is not debatable if you use common sense.

Surf crashing, waves breaking on surface add o2. Skimmers replicate this action. Removing co2 and adding o2. This is why people run calcium reactor effluent into the skimmer.

Surface agitation adding o2 will not compare to pumping a cylinder full of water and micro bubbles, think about the water contacting air in the cylinder vs the surface.

And still to repeat my point, if there's a lack of o2, it would by in the entire display ont in half of the tank, causing a tang to swim in one side which is your claim.

The truth is that tang is board, stressed, or using the glass as a treadmill, ever wonder why it's always on a side, not back wall? Glass is clear so swimming towards something they see in the room, nit a back wall that's blacked out, or a side against a wall.....

Skimmers don’t add O2 to the water, they can help with gas exchange to a point but short of having the tank receive nothing but pure O2 only through the skimmer, you’re unlikely to raise O2 levels. A skimmer doesn’t work in the way you mentioned, sure there’s agitation, but it is extraction gasses as atmospheric gasses are dispersed, in a living room or high traffic area, the changes in O2 are nonexistent or negligible.

I already know that O2 isn’t the reason for the PBT sticking to one side, I stated this earlier and pretty clearly with something along the lines of ‘O2 levels should be even across the tank’, O2 dispersion and O2 levels being lower than ideal are two different things. I was simply answering OP question if people over exaggerate a tang’s needs, and no people don’t, an example is that a tank that small doesn’t have the surface area to replicate a reef crest where powder blues graze. I also went on to say that while experienced reefers have tangs in smaller than ideal setups, they have exit strategies in place.

The tangs lurking in one side only will likely have more to do with ease of food or stress than anything.

 

[i cant think]

if your tang was aggressive you probs weren't feeding enough my purple chases my midas blenny every now and again never tail swipes him also pretty hypocritical as u kept that tang in a 3 foot tank

I kept that tang in a 3’ tank but had an exit plan for when the time came, I upgraded due to the move and was going to rehome the scopas into a larger tank (6’ minimum). It was fed plenty and had plenty of room to graze (This tang was probably 2” and bought at 1” - I owned it for 2 years). It was nothing to do with feeding but simply an aggressive tang with a fish of similar body shape. I rarely dwell on the past however, because of that incident I lost £1500 in coral & fish alone, It’s taken 2 years to recover from that loss and go back into the pricey fish (Genicanthus melanospilos and Hoplolatilus chlupatyi).

 

[Zekireef]

you should probs just focus on ur own fishes though as i seen your build thread before and have had quite a few fish deaths mean while i have had 0

Mate, there’s no need for this. Everyone has their wins and losses. Just because you haven’t had a death yet, doesn’t mean you’re immune from critique.’ I can’t think ‘even acknowledged the deaths and went about finding the cause and learning from it. If they had the guts to include that in their build thread, you don’t have the right to rub their face in it.

You asked what is pretty much a loaded question, and now you’re getting defensive with the answers coming your way, which kinda shows that only asking this question to reaffirm your existing views. That’s fine, but don’t get upset or disrespectful when people don’t agree with you. That is the epitome of the age old term ask hole.

 

[Dave1993]

Mate, there’s no need for this. Everyone has their wins and losses. Just because you haven’t had a death yet, doesn’t mean you’re immune from critique.’ I can’t think ‘even acknowledged the deaths and went about finding the cause and learning from it. If they had the guts to include that in their build thread, you don’t have the right to rub their face in it.

You asked what is pretty much a loaded question, and now you’re getting defensive with the answers coming your way, which kinda shows that only asking this question to reaffirm your existing views. That’s fine, but don’t get upset or disrespectful when people don’t agree with you. That is the epitome of the age old term ask hole.

Location down unda
pretty cringe

 

[Zekireef]

Location down unda
pretty cringe

Posts a question in a forum, unhappy with responses…. Calling me ‘cringe’ is kinda like the pot calling the kettle black bud. In fact, it’s in a league of its own.

My location is tongue in cheek, a play on how a TV character would likely butcher it, your b@tthurt-rash from being upset at the responses seems pretty real.

Also, if the 1993 in your username is your birth year, I’m pretty comfortable assuming so, a millennial like yourself (I’m only a few years older) using the term ‘cringe’ can be summed up by the Hans Moleman pic attached. It’s a zoomer thing my guy, you ain’t it.

See, I can do ‘the jokes’ too, and I’m fairly confident I can roast you worse than you’d imagine . I’m not going to though because I still have the respect for you and this forum. We’re trying to treat you in good faith, meet us all halfway and quit hurling insults and being disrespectful.

I’ll repeat in TLDR form, next time just be more respectful of people instead of getting defensive when you don’t get the circle jerk you were hoping for when you ask a loaded question and people will take you more seriously.

 

[Shooter6]

Skimmers don’t add O2 to the water, they can help with gas exchange to a point but short of having the tank receive nothing but pure O2 only through the skimmer, you’re unlikely to raise O2 levels. A skimmer doesn’t work in the way you mentioned, sure there’s agitation, but it is extraction gasses as atmospheric gasses are dispersed, in a living room or high traffic area, the changes in O2 are nonexistent or negligible.

I already know that O2 isn’t the reason for the PBT sticking to one side, I stated this earlier and pretty clearly with something along the lines of ‘O2 levels should be even across the tank’, O2 dispersion and O2 levels being lower than ideal are two different things. I was simply answering OP question if people over exaggerate a tang’s needs, and no people don’t, an example is that a tank that small doesn’t have the surface area to replicate a reef crest where powder blues graze. I also went on to say that while experienced reefers have tangs in smaller than ideal setups, they have exit strategies in place.

The tangs lurking in one side only will likely have more to do with ease of food or stress than anything.

You are absolutely wrong on the skimmer and how it works. Yes the main reason for a skimmer is to collect proteins,oils and other desolved organic materials by them sticking to the air bubbles, but the second and just as important function is the contact of water molecules to air molecules in the cylinder. This causes o2 and co2 to exchange and saturate the water with 02.

Surface off gas of c02 does occur, but there is not an absorbed 02 without a churning of the water. 2 simple experiments put a glass of fresh saltwater on a shelf. Leave it open. Then put another with a wood airstone and pump. After 2 weeks drop a damsel in each, see which one lives and which one suffocated.

You are carrying freshwater tank theory over to saltwater, but it's not the same.
Saltwater has a lesser o2 saturation ability then freshwater.
And another example, you do know calcium reactor effluent is high in co2 right? And people run it into the calcium reactor to gas off the co2, raising the ph with the o2 bubbles? This is a fact, not a myth.

Your still trying to defend your wrong statements about 02 depleted half of the op display by deflecting.

If you do not want to learn about a skimmers ability, admit your wrong , and that you have been corrected thats fine, but there's a ton of new reefers who will read your statements and believe you know what your talking about, which we all know you do not!

 

[Justin_Reef]

but powder blue are swimmers yet mine only uses 2 foot of my tank 3 if it decides to go for abit of a swim (not often) i feel the only reason tangs swim is for food and if they have food right there then they is no need for them to swim so much dont get me wrong i think tangs that get over a foot long need bigger tanks and would never put 1 of them in my 4 foot tank depending on if my powder blue or purple tang gets to about 7" i know i will have to rehome them but in the passed year my purple has grown about half an inch if that he is now growing in width (becoming a fatty)

They are swimmers, but that fish don't have no room to swim lol.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you having it in a 4' foot tank, but this rational is really funny.

 

[Shooter6]

Posts a question in a forum, unhappy with responses…. Calling me ‘cringe’ is kinda like the pot calling the kettle black bud. In fact, it’s in a league of its own.

My location is tongue in cheek, a play on how a TV character would likely butcher it, your b@tthurt-rash from being upset at the responses seems pretty real.

Also, if the 1993 in your username is your birth year, I’m pretty comfortable assuming so, a millennial like yourself (I’m only a few years older) using the term ‘cringe’ can be summed up by the Hans Moleman pic attached. It’s a zoomer thing my guy, you ain’t it.

See, I can do ‘the jokes’ too, and I’m fairly confident I can roast you worse than you’d imagine . I’m not going to though because I still have the respect for you and this forum. We’re trying to treat you in good faith, meet us all halfway and quit hurling insults and being disrespectful.

I’ll repeat in TLDR form, next time just be more respectful of people instead of getting defensive when you don’t get the circle jerk you were hoping for when you ask a loaded question and people will take you more seriously.

Here is an experiment, done with an airstone ( first skimmers were run with airstones, which I actually have had back when I first started in 1988. Replicates a skimmers effect for this conversation. Hopefully you will read and absorb ( saturate your cranium) the info

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/eb/index.php

 

[Justin_Reef]

This is such a complicated question. I have a 7' x 3' tank and it's not enough space for my 8" Hippo tang to properly swim (I have seen them swim in the ocean), but it doesn't seem to bother her from what I can tell. She is pretty obsessed with begging for food. If I am late feeding her, she eats gorgonians, so she keeps herself busy.

I've seen tangs in 3' and 4' tanks that seem great and others that stay in a corner and barely swim because they are too scared to move. I would say those ones are really unhappy about how cramped they are.

 

[Zekireef]

You are absolutely wrong on the skimmer and how it works. Yes the main reason for a skimmer is to collect proteins,oils and other desolved organic materials by them sticking to the air bubbles, but the second and just as important function is the contact of water molecules to air molecules in the cylinder. This causes o2 and co2 to exchange and saturate the water with 02.

Surface off gas of c02 does occur, but there is not an absorbed 02 without a churning of the water. 2 simple experiments put a glass of fresh saltwater on a shelf. Leave it open. Then put another with a wood airstone and pump. After 2 weeks drop a damsel in each, see which one lives and which one suffocated.

You are carrying freshwater tank theory over to saltwater, but it's not the same.
Saltwater has a lesser o2 saturation ability then freshwater.
And another example, you do know calcium reactor effluent is high in co2 right? And people run it into the calcium reactor to gas off the co2, raising the ph with the o2 bubbles? This is a fact, not a myth.

Your still trying to defend your wrong statements about 02 depleted half of the op display by deflecting.

If you do not want to learn about a skimmers ability, admit your wrong , and that you have been corrected thats fine, but there's a ton of new reefers who will read your statements and believe you know what your talking about, which we all know you do not!

Here is an experiment, done with an airstone ( first skimmers were run with airstones, which I actually have had back when I first started in 1988. Replicates a skimmers effect for this conversation. Hopefully you will read and absorb ( saturate your cranium) the info

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/eb/index.php

We might have wires crossed here. Not going to go into some of the issues with the study, as it still has value. The article in your link covers conditions of hypoxia, you’re not going to see those conditions in most all reef tanks as we have lighting causing algae to convert CO2 into O2 via photosynthesis, this is why PH fluctuates unless you’re running a refugium on a reverse schedule, both with or without a skimmer and sure oxygenation will be substantial from hypoxia, but that’s not my point, my point is that O2 and CO2 will only reach saturation levels at equilibrium with the atmospheric conditions, in the case of a reef tank, that’s likely the living room, a high traffic area with much higher levels of CO2 than the open ocean. This is why I said skimmers can only work up to a point, you could possibly boost O2 A smidge using a CO2 reactor. We aren’t in the open ocean/seas where the air has higher levels of O2, we’re in enclosed, stuffy environment. I’m not a chemist, the most I did was chem units in grades 9-12 but I know enough to know a skimmer isn’t going to provide high saturation levels this fish live within, it can get you closer, but not there. That was my whole point.

If you’re keen for a read, this thread posts several good articles covering this, https://www.thereeftank.com/threads/do-skimmers-produce-oxygen.127915/page-2

Anyways, either way we look at it, this is superfluous to the topic at hand, all I said was the OP is likely not providing the ideal conditions for a creature that dwells on the reef crest. We have no photos no context for OPs situation, so it’s increasingly beginning to look like a post made in bad faith to reaffirm a position rather than an open discussion. OPs behaviour towards others in this thread says enough as it is.