Do supplements contain what they claim?

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I've mostly ranted about false or misleading functional claims from reef supplement makers (e.g., "enhances red colors in corals") but this study of human sports supplements should caution us to not accept even simple claims about ingredients:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2807345

"Cohen et al report on the contents of 57 purportedly performance-enhancing sports supplements. Remarkably, 23 (40%) contained no detectable amount of the declared ingredient."

"6 products included 1 FDA-prohibited pharmacologically active ingredient, 1 product contained 4, and many contained levels of active ingredients well above labeled quantities."

from the actual study:

"Of the products that contained detectable amounts of the listed ingredient, the actual quantity ranged from 0.02% to 334% of the labeled quantity"

 

[blaxsun]

Rats. I was hoping for a list in the article...

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Hmmmm…. I’d like to see the data comparison to online dating profiles. I believe 40% of those have no detectable amount of the listed ingredient either!

 

[shakacuz]

Rats. I was hoping for a list in the article...

me too! hopefully i'm not consuming any of the ones tested here :(.

 

[jda]

I think that most know my opinion about this, but the companies know that they can get some cred for being along for the ride when people decide to focus-up. It is the focus that mattered and not what you used when you focused. If you focused on something else, you would still have a great tank, still be in shape and build muscle if you worked out enough, etc.

In our case, if folks focused on tuning a CaRx or the 3 part and doing routine water changes it would make no difference over testing and dosing every single element. However, if this is what some need in order to focus, then cool. Balling, DSR, Triton, Berlin, Moonshine, etc. all interchangeable, IMO.

I think that this proves out with today's hot method or additive always being a punchline tomorrow. When I was made to work out all the time by the athletic department, the hot thing was diets based on blood type... then creatine was the magic thing a bit later. I don't even know anymore, but like Aminos have come and gone. The folks who just put in the work and ate a balanced diet with plenty of protein and good extra carbs (we were like 4-5000 calorie a day people back then during the season) did the best and still do.

Jay said this best:

None of these aquarium companies have real labs - they just skim the literature for ideas.

 

[rtparty]

Hmmmm…. I’d like to see the data comparison to online dating profiles. I believe 40% of those have no detectable amount of the listed ingredient either!

No offense but A Blind Reefer and “I’d like to see” is quite the irony :winking-face-with-tongue:

 

[Uncle99]

I’ve fallen to those type product claims. Great packaging. Super “puffing”.

Without mentioning the specific product, over a year, and as compared to a prior year, did not noticeably “enhance red colours” at all, nor any colour at all.

Good news is at least it didn’t cause any issues.

Did increase my budget a ton though, and made me a contributor to their profit margin.

Back to the basics.

 

[KrisReef]

I've mostly ranted about false or misleading functional claims from reef supplement makers (e.g., "enhances red colors in corals") but this study of human sports supplements should caution us to not accept even simple claims about ingredients:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2807345

"Cohen et al report on the contents of 57 purportedly performance-enhancing sports supplements. Remarkably, 23 (40%) contained no detectable amount of the declared ingredient."

"6 products included 1 FDA-prohibited pharmacologically active ingredient, 1 product contained 4, and many contained levels of active ingredients well above labeled quantities."

from the actual study:

"Of the products that contained detectable amounts of the listed ingredient, the actual quantity ranged from 0.02% to 334% of the labeled quantity"

I don’t have time to read this but I have always wanted to have the ability to test and verify or reject the claims of the products offered to me in reefing and in medicine when my health is on the line.
I wouldn’t have time to test the other products offered at the grocery stores and other aspects of life, and forget politics they don’t have an understanding of what the truth is or means if a person succeeds in that arena, at least that’s what it looks like from here.

 

[Reefer Matt]

If it's not regulated, they will make claims just to sell a product. Kinda where the market in reefing is now. I don't advocate for government regulation, but internally, by a group of people who represent hobbyists, instead of the industry.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

No offense but A Blind Reefer and “I’d like to see” is quite the irony :winking-face-with-tongue:

I see what you’re sayin ha

 

[jda]

Do people really want all of this? What would happen if manufacturers had to prove that their stuff worked, or at least helped?

I want it, but is this better for the hobby? Do many people even care?

What happens if nobody buys bottled supplements anymore? Does r2r have to charge money since sponsorships go down? Does BRS and other places have to raise prices to pay their overhead without selling this segment of the market? Can MACNA even happen without all of the hype - make no mistake about it, about 1/3 of MACNA is hype, another third is vendors selling frags and the last third is speakers (some of them are hype too).

My guess is that only a tiny few even care, but these tiny few are probably pretty good at things. The majority of folks just believe what is printed and move on.

 

[jda]

You know what, I am going to start my own reefing movement. NBR - No Bottle Reefing. Look for a post soon.

 

[paragrouper]

I think that most know my opinion about this, but the companies know that they can get some cred for being along for the ride when people decide to focus-up. It is the focus that mattered and not what you used when you focused. If you focused on something else, you would still have a great tank, still be in shape and build muscle if you worked out enough, etc.

In our case, if folks focused on tuning a CaRx or the 3 part and doing routine water changes it would make no difference over testing and dosing every single element. However, if this is what some need in order to focus, then cool. Balling, DSR, Triton, Berlin, Moonshine, etc. all interchangeable, IMO.

I think that this proves out with today's hot method or additive always being a punchline tomorrow. When I was made to work out all the time by the athletic department, the hot thing was diets based on blood type... then creatine was the magic thing a bit later. I don't even know anymore, but like Aminos have come and gone. The folks who just put in the work and ate a balanced diet with plenty of protein and good extra carbs (we were like 4-5000 calorie a day people back then during the season) did the best and still do.

Jay said this best:

My favorite was preworkout mixes—very pricey and easily replaced with a cup of Folgers coffee.

 

[jda]

Started a discussion thread on folks who want to stop using all bottled stuff. I guess that we will see if anybody cares. :)

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-reefing-method-no-bottle-reefing-or-nbr.999061/

 

[Dan_P]

Do people really want all of this? What would happen if manufacturers had to prove that their stuff worked, or at least helped?

I want it, but is this better for the hobby? Do many people even care?

What happens if nobody buys bottled supplements anymore? Does r2r have to charge money since sponsorships go down? Does BRS and other places have to raise prices to pay their overhead without selling this segment of the market? Can MACNA even happen without all of the hype - make no mistake about it, about 1/3 of MACNA is hype, another third is vendors selling frags and the last third is speakers (some of them are hype too).

My guess is that only a tiny few even care, but these tiny few are probably pretty good at things. The majority of folks just believe what is printed and move on.

Remind me to take you off my list of potential customers for my bottled fountain of youth and reef salve.

 

[vetteguy53081]

There are too many of the even overseas with the name of product being deceiving:
Examples:

Stress coat- adds slime- does not relieve stress

Rid ich

Melafix - Teak tree oil

Stress zyme

Anything with Shield - shield with what?

Paracleanse

paraguard

Medic

Prime - great to remove chlorine

Hydroplex - Great if fish have acne

 

[jda]

Remind me to take you off my list of potential customers for my bottled fountain of youth and reef salve.

It would probably sell even though it is well documented that searching for the Fountain of Youth leads to premature death and lost fortunes.

 

[backbayreef]

When I first started in this hobby, I loved the look of purple rock formations so I went out and bought 2 bottles of PurpleUp (looks like it's still on the shelves?). It didn't help anyway since my tank was not matured yet. Later I've learned that things came naturally; don't need to spend $40 (which was $$ at the time). There are other ways to get the same thing w/o spending that $40. Fast forward to AAs - same thing happened here -- I bought several bottles of AcroPower and RS Reef Energy+. Many people swore by them but honestly, I've seen zero difference in my tank wrt growth/coloration. My tank is simple now, no bottles! I just use a CaRx to maintain the big 3, feed my fish with pellets & nori (sometimes frozen), and things are thriving with great colors!

I don't believe on trashing vendors' "products" - it's a free enterprise, pure supply & demand. However, I have zero demand for these bottles. If more and more reefers like me will stop buying them, I would imagine that the supply will go down and ultimately perish? When I introduce reefing to my friends and family, I don't recommend getting PurpleUp or AA supplements anymore. I'm doing my part and that's all I can do.

 

[Dan_P]

I've mostly ranted about false or misleading functional claims from reef supplement makers (e.g., "enhances red colors in corals") but this study of human sports supplements should caution us to not accept even simple claims about ingredients:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2807345

"Cohen et al report on the contents of 57 purportedly performance-enhancing sports supplements. Remarkably, 23 (40%) contained no detectable amount of the declared ingredient."

"6 products included 1 FDA-prohibited pharmacologically active ingredient, 1 product contained 4, and many contained levels of active ingredients well above labeled quantities."

from the actual study:

"Of the products that contained detectable amounts of the listed ingredient, the actual quantity ranged from 0.02% to 334% of the labeled quantity"

No side effects with placebos, right?

 

[HomebroodExotics]

I like this website for this purpose. https://labdoor.com/

It would be cool to have a site like this for the reefing hobby