Do Zoanthid morphs really disappear from the Hobby?!

[SauceyReef]

Do Zoanthid morphs really disappear from the Hobby?!? Been hearing this more and more..

Very curious on why this happens if it does. Do they breed/morph out? Do they all just start dying and not making it in our systems long term? Is it possible that diseases affect specific morphs? Lights being changed in the majority of the hobby?

 

[Saltyreef]

Likely all the variables you listed contribute.

They dont 100% disappear but rather get more rare as reefers hoard them for growout.

Or they frag them out to people who dont sell and end up with none them selves which is what ive had happen to me plenty of times.
Namely with my KTAR black hornets and JKR flaming mohicans.

Case in point, stratospheres just recently resurfaced in masses for $400/pp where as before they were thought to be mostly lost at $1500/pp lol.

 

[SauceyReef]

Likely all the variables you listed contribute.

They dont 100% disappear but rather get more rare as reefers hoard them for growout.

Or they frag them out to people who dont sell and end up with none them selves which is what ive had happen to me plenty of times.
Namely with my KTAR black hornets and JKR flaming mohicans.

Case in point, stratospheres just recently resurfaced in masses for $400/pp where as before they were thought to be mostly lost at $1500/pp lol.

I thought Strats were just a newly discovered / taken polyp from the wild that had a unique morph not introduced to the hobby. I thought that is why the price tag was so high. So strats were once more widely available before they were selling for thousands?

 

[shakacuz]

my guess is that the hype of zoa's, or the various morphs died down. seems the market is targeting SPS (as usual), and perhaps LPS. i do not see much hype of softies (unless specifically running a softy only tank)

in my weird, isolated event, i cannot keep zoa's long term. do they amazing in the beginning. grow quickly, then wither and start melting. this is currently happening with my nirvana zoa's. nearly took over my entire zoa "tower" and just recently started withering away (although i believe this to be because of high bromine/boron in my tank currently). or could be my low nutrients because of my clams..

 

[Saltyreef]

I thought Strats were just a newly discovered / taken polyp from the wild that had a unique morph not introduced to the hobby. I thought that is why the price tag was so high. So strats were once more widely available before they were selling for thousands?

Yes. They were quite popular when originally imported. About 5-10 years ago people started reporting them as difficult to keep alive long term.
The hoarders hoarded and the resellers per polyp price shot up through the roof.
Now they are likely more aquacultured and hardier, they will likely drop in price as they become more popular again.

Remember when GB GMKs came out at $1200/pp, now you can find them for $100.

Oddly enough its most of the plain jane stuff that used to be widely available thats turning out harder to find.

True purple people eaters.....stuff like that.

 

[Saltyreef]

my guess is that the hype of zoa's, or the various morphs died down. seems the market is targeting SPS (as usual), and perhaps LPS. i do not see much hype of softies (unless specifically running a softy only tank)

in my weird, isolated event, i cannot keep zoa's long term. do they amazing in the beginning. grow quickly, then wither and start melting. this is currently happening with my nirvana zoa's. nearly took over my entire zoa "tower" and just recently started withering away (although i believe this to be because of high bromine/boron in my tank currently). or could be my low nutrients because of my clams..

Hype is dynamic. Trends always change. It all comes back around full circle. 2019 the rage was rainbow chalices.
The last few years its been bounce mushrooms.

Acros and zoas will always be the most popular for the sellers that can actually grow them well lol.

Those sellers with 50-100 types are lifers and dont fall subject to the selling trend.

Someone like me, i prefer the easier stuff due to my lax husbandry.... zoas, mushrooms and nems

 

[littlebigreef]

The reason strats became so valuable was because indo shut down and people fragged domestically held stuff into oblivion. With indo opening back up voila, they’re now as abundant as gmks.

Some strains do eventually fade away. It’s often said ‘x grows in more that a 2’x2’ section of the ocean’ but some times the amount of any one variety collected can be limited. That, coupled with slower growth, poor fragging, human error can lead to strains disappearing from the hobby entirely.

A few examples: nightfury, ultimate chaos, OG Delirium, OG Adonis, snow owls. Not to say there isn’t some out there but none have been offered for some time.

Some on the cusp: spellbinders, poinsettias, dayglow volcanos, black orchids.

 

[LAX Noob Reef]

BTW, to post about GMK $100, it's actually about $50-70 PP now.

 

[blecki]

And what about ones that don't die out, but just end up with a different name? It seems like this hobby has an endless stream of new morphs with crazy names.

I sure can't tell the difference between these armegeddon zoas https://fragbox.ca/product/armageddon-zoas/ and these armor of god zoas https://topshelfaquatics.com/product/armor-of-god-zoa-wysiwyg-softie-frag-2/ but if they really go for $50/head I could make some money...

 

[SauceyReef]

I have been in the hobby for around 15 years, but did not really start taking it seriously until the past 3 years. The more I get into this the more Zoas absolutely intrigue me. They could have one of the largest variety of morphs in the hobby (interestingly also seem to have some of the most diseases/predators).

Until 3 years ago I was not really paying attention to all the morphs like I am now. Some of the ones you showed above insane! I am also in Zoa Lovers group on FB, and occasionally someone posts an absolutely insane morph that no one seems to know.

I never knew GMKs were selling at the thousand mark at one point! That is insane! I actually negotiated a vendor down at a frag-swap to get a single GMK polyp for $50 near half a year ago. At 3 polyps now This explains to me how it is working with the Stratospheres though. Seeing they have already gone from $2k PP to $200 PP (and I am seeing them locally).

 

[SauceyReef]

Are there any that we know of that have actually entirely disappeared? Like no one has them?

Also, can Zoas completely change morph in ones tank? Ahhh so many questions

 

[littlebigreef]

Are there any that we know of that have actually entirely disappeared? Like no one has them?

Also, can Zoas completely change morph in ones tank? Ahhh so many questions

Aside from my lists above look no further than the original Krakatoa or emperor zoa, those were both one and done and no more have been found.

On your second point stuff will morph, some more so than others, but nothing currently in capability is going to morph into an original Krakatoa or night fury.

Add to that list of gone or near gone: dragon glass, Oscar the grouch.

 

[blecki]

They will change color under different lighting conditions a little. I haven't seen them change that much though. And of course the pictures you see online are nothing like what they look like under normal lighting.

 

[Camaro Show Corals]

Aside from my lists above look no further than the original Krakatoa or emperor zoa, those were both one and done and no more have been found.

On your second point stuff will morph, some more so than others, but nothing currently in capability is going to morph into an original Krakatoa or night fury.

Add to that list of gone or near gone: dragon glass, Oscar the grouch.

My Dragon glass have been very slow at times but the past 6 months have actually been doing something. Hence I’ve been offering a few frags for sale in my threads.

 

[blecki]

How much are they going for now?

 

[jda]

Yes, they can certianly disappear. I have been looking for Gonzos space monsters for a long time now. They always could die off when you fragged them, but they appear to like tons of daylight and are not all that conducive to the heavy blue trend lately.

Some Z&P also do not do well without traces through WC, or some other method.

All of this leads to regression towards the mean and only the super tough ones survive the masses and the more sensitive ones die back.

 

[littlebigreef]

My Dragon glass have been very slow at times but the past 6 months have actually been doing something. Hence I’ve been offering a few frags for sale in my threads.

Wouldn’t surprise me if they’re similar to poinsettias in growth rate and tolerance to fragging. Even with good nutrition and parameters some just grow slow and often stall.

 

[Tavero]

my guess is that the hype of zoa's, or the various morphs died down. seems the market is targeting SPS (as usual), and perhaps LPS. i do not see much hype of softies (unless specifically running a softy only tank)

in my weird, isolated event, i cannot keep zoa's long term. do they amazing in the beginning. grow quickly, then wither and start melting. this is currently happening with my nirvana zoa's. nearly took over my entire zoa "tower" and just recently started withering away (although i believe this to be because of high bromine/boron in my tank currently). or could be my low nutrients because of my clams..

What lights are you using?

 

[shakacuz]

What lights are you using?

2 hydra 32hd’s with reef brite hko kits each. lights aren’t the issue

 

[SauceyReef]

I've mysteriously lost some zoas before from minor light changes. Shows how finnicky they are even when doing very well. Crazy to think one day something like Utter Chaos may be hard to find.