Does coralline algae protect Red Sea seals?

[StartingATank]

Just something I was wondering whenever I was looking at my tank (yea it is a Red Sea), if coralline algae began growing on the seams and glass near them, does it protect the seams from algae breaking down the sealant, leading to seam failure? Just a curious question.

 

[tbrown]

My understanding from one of the people that helped design the Red Sea tanks was that the front panel not being supported is the main cause of the seam failures.

 

[StartingATank]

My understanding from one of the people that helped design the Red Sea tanks was that the front panel not being supported is the main cause of the seam failures.

Ah that makes sense. I just feel like every post I see about a seam failure is whenever an algae, usually Dino’s or Gha breaks down the seam causing it to be loose, but I guess I only look at the seam posts not the ones talking about how theirs is falling apart.

 

[tbrown]

Ah that makes sense. I just feel like every post I see about a seam failure is whenever an algae, usually Dino’s or Gha breaks down the seam causing it to be loose, but I guess I only look at the seam posts not the ones talking about how theirs is falling apart.

I have zero first hand experience though. I've just been told the seams fail because they're slipping. Several members have mentioned they can't open the doors and then their seams fail.

Coralline would be a potential "glue" though. It does make sense.

 

[Fish Fan]

To my knowledge, the floating front pane of glass is Red Sea's official explanation of the failures, but other tank manufacturers have a similar design (I believe), and I know that those who have looked into the Red Sea failures suggest that Red Sea uses inferior silicon and an improper application process, which leads to failures.

I see what you guys are saying about the coralline growing over the seam to protect it, but I'm skeptical. I'm not sure that algae growth between the seams is really what's forcing the failure, and I'm not sure if coralline growth would prevent that either way.

@UncommonSense has literally dissected old Red Sea tanks, and he's very informed on this. Maybe he's got a minute to weigh in here

 

[exnisstech]

My understanding from one of the people that helped design the Red Sea tanks was that the front panel not being supported is the main cause of the seam failures.

I have to disagree. That person must not have been privy to the type of silicon being used.

My reefer 170


There are other manufacturers using a floating front panel without any where near the number if reported failures. This is my water box 330.7 gallon 84x30x25" tank. My smaller IM20 also used a floating front panel design.

OP IME algae loves RS silicone.
My G2 reefer 300.

From what I've read if a tank like this is out of warranty RS advises to empty it. If it's under warranty it's nothing to worry about.

The seam leaks are cause by failure of the silicone. If RS took the time to dissect a failed tank they would see that. TMK they've never asked to have a failed tank returned to analyze it. But then again maybe they do know and they changed the silicone and added a Eurobrace to take the credit as the fix. We'll never know because they aren't going to publicly state the silicone is the cause. We'll know if the G3s correct the issue in a few years buy they'll never disclose the actual cause. JMO

 

[tbrown]

I have to disagree. That person must not have been privy to the type of silicon being used.

My reefer 170


There are other manufacturers using a floating front panel without any where near the number if reported failures. This is my water box 330.7 gallon 84x30x25" tank. My smaller IM20 also used a floating front panel design.

OP IME algae loves RS silicone.
My G2 reefer 300.

From what I've read if a tank like this is out of warranty RS advises to empty it. If it's under warranty it's nothing to worry about.

The seam leaks are cause by failure of the silicone. If RS took the time to dissect a failed tank they would see that. TMK they've never asked to have a failed tank returned to analyze it. But then again maybe they do know and they changed the silicone and added a Eurobrace to take the credit as the fix. We'll never know because they aren't going to publicly state the silicone is the cause. We'll know if the G3s correct the issue in a few years buy they'll never disclose the actual cause. JMO

I trust your experience. Like I said no first hand experience for me. The gentleman that told me this was one of the engineers that was on the design team.

 

[EnterName]

To my knowledge, the floating front pane of glass is Red Sea's official explanation of the failures [...]

Imagine working at RedSea and being tasked to fix the seam failures and you come up with Gen3 (eurobracing and more silicone) instead of a cheap piece of wood or aluminum below the floating glass panel as a fix

Their G3 design choices don't make any sense if the floating front pane really was the issue.

 

[UncommonSense]

but other tank manufacturers have a similar design (I believe

Yup, Fiji Cube comes to mind, such as a local reefing buddy’s Fiji 95INT:

Now, let’s use the above 60”x24”x16” tank as our example to explain why the floating front pane is actually very doable…

Glass:

— 60”x16” of 12mm (~1/2”) thick glass in the floating viewing pane = ~6.667ft2…

— 6.14lbs per-ft2 for 12mm glass, so <41lbs for the whole viewing pane…

Structural silicone seams holding glass to tank:

— 59” long horizontal seam, 2X 15.5” tall vertical seams… 90” of seam in total

— 90” of structural seam is 1/2” wide… so 45in2 of structural silicone…

The physics:

— any silicone worth using for tank building will be good for 200+ pounds per-square inch in “lap shear” (parts sliding, like the floating viewing pane trying to fall off), and typically at least double that in tension (water pressure trying rip tank apart)

— Given that we have 45 square inches of structural silicone seam, at say, 200PSI of lap shear strength (45X200); we find ourselves sitting right at 9,000lbs of rated silicone strength, holding up a <41lb glass pane!

I see what you guys are saying about the coralline growing over the seam to protect it, but I'm skeptical. I'm not sure that algae growth between the seams is really what's forcing the failure, and I'm not sure if coralline growth would prevent that either way.

Coralline algae definitely does seem to slowly creep in under the Red Sea silicone…

Here’s the edge of a 15mm short side pane I just cut into eurobracing glass, prior to cleaning off all the old silicone… this would be as viewed from the tank interior, examining a side pane’s vertical seam:

@UncommonSense has literally dissected old Red Sea tanks, and he's very informed on this. Maybe he's got a minute to weigh in here

I have indeed… In fact, I’ve done destructive failure analysis on both G1, and G2 tanks!

For anyone interested:

G1 Reefer XL425 autopsy

G2 Reefer XL525 autopsy

 

[Fish Fan]

Yup, Fiji Cube comes to mind, such as a local reefing buddy’s Fiji 95INT:

Now, let’s use the above 60”x24”x16” tank as our example to explain why the floating front pane is actually very doable…

Glass:

— 60”x16” of 12mm (~1/2”) thick glass in the floating viewing pane = ~6.667ft2…

— 6.14lbs per-ft2 for 12mm glass, so <41lbs for the whole viewing pane…

Structural silicone seams holding glass to tank:

— 59” long horizontal seam, 2X 15.5” tall vertical seams… 90” of seam in total

— 90” of structural seam is 1/2” wide… so 45in2 of structural silicone…

The physics:

— any silicone worth using for tank building will be good for 200+ pounds per-square inch in “lap shear” (parts sliding, like the floating viewing pane trying to fall off), and typically at least double that in tension (water pressure trying rip tank apart)

— Given that we have 45 square inches of structural silicone seam, at say, 200PSI of lap shear strength (45X200); we find ourselves sitting right at 9,000lbs of rated silicone strength, holding up a <41lb glass pane!



Coralline algae definitely does seem to slowly creep in under the Red Sea silicone…

Here’s the edge of a 15mm short side pane I just cut into eurobracing glass, prior to cleaning off all the old silicone… this would be as viewed from the tank interior, examining a side pane’s vertical seam:

I have indeed… In fact, I’ve done destructive failure analysis on both G1, and G2 tanks!

For anyone interested:

G1 Reefer XL425 autopsy

G2 Reefer XL525 autopsy

Well said, J., thanks for your help