dosing anecdotes of a fish keeper

[aeras1131]

Hello All,
Forgive if me if I simply skipped over the guide book, but I recently got into dosing my aquarium after determining my Ca/Mg was operating in Normal/Bust Cycle between water changes. I feel like the topic of additive dosing in the salt water aquaria is not covered thoroughly enough to jump in and complete the task. Where did you guys discover the tips and tricks? One big thing that I have found is that Mg/Ca move in a 2:1 ratio. 40ppm Mg == 20ppm Ca decrease. Also, I run a low nutrient system. My systems nitrates are fairly low running at ~2ppm stable tested with salifert nitrate test kit and phosphate is currently sitting at 2.5ppm based on hanna checker. I run biopellets in my sump.
This was leading to decrease in Coraline algae for my aquarium. I began drip dosing Aquavitro fuel. As long as I was dosing manually per the dosage. I was experiencing almost nil coralline growth. I switched over to dripping Fuel from a doser and because it was not just getting skimmed out of the tank my mg dropped 80ppm in one daylight cycle. O.O I tested it 3 times and the Ca moved predictively with the Mg drop. Once I stablized Mg, Ca is about a 4ppm/day uptake. My alkalinity is currently gradually coming down. I accidentally my pH drop on Alk so I used Kent Super dKH buffer. It was a newb reefer mistake, which I am correcting currently at 12.5 dKH dropping at .8 or so dKH per 5G water change done x2 weekly until the alkalinity comes down at which point I will be gathering some SPS.
If you could share your personal tips discoveries knowledge it would be greatly appreciated. My reef has been up for roughly 3 months.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

One big thing that I have found is that Mg/Ca move in a 2:1 ratio. 40ppm Mg == 20ppm Ca decrease. ]

No, that's not correct, unless it is happening from salinity changes or water changes. Otherwise, it is test error.

Actual consumption rations are about:

calcium 17.5 mg/L calcium
magnesium 1.5 mg/L magnesium
alkalinity 2.8 dKH

Actual magnesium consumption is typically about 1/10th of the calcium consumption. it is never equal or higher than calcium, but it can be less than 1/10th.

 

[aeras1131]

can I get a mod to change the title to dosing anecdotes of a fish keeper

 

[aeras1131]

Hello All,

First off, I would like to apologize about the ranty sort of post initially.
Thank you for your response Randy.. I understand your train of thought. The Daily Rate of change that I cited is not a fluke test. I have consistently measured that rate of change in Ca when mg is not stable. When the system's Mg is stable via dosing, Ca is stable I have a lot of coralline algae on the rock work. Is there a study on the uptake rate of Coralline algae and Mg. I remember seeing it had a higher daily uptake rate of Mg compared to Ca. That data point of ca vs mg rate of change when mg falls has been consistent even before I started dosing. Initially pre-reef, I was running a very high nutrient system over 100ppm nitrate. My nitrates are down to ~2ppm now and when I hand dosed fuel per the bottle my mg was rock solid stable. Immediately after drip dosing fuel at the rates listed below, the Mg rate of change has been Delta 80 ppm/per day cycle. I believe the corresponding drop in Ca was because of precipitation. I currently dose 90ml of ESV bionic Mg per day. I currently have a stable mg param after adjusting my dosing regime. I tested it for the next 5 days after gradually raising the mg to the proper NSW levels. I then proceed to dose based on real world dosage/ppm change for the system. I also tested it three times because the readings were extraordinary prior to making any changes. I know fuel is fairly potent. Anecdotally people have found that it will affect there orp reading on their probes. My best guess would be that the fuel is no longer getting skimmed off in a boom/bust cycle when I used to hand dose it per the instructions on the bottle for my aquarium volume. I currently drip dose it with the same total volume of dosage. I believe it is just more consistently bioavailable. I have noticed that my red coralline algae is much denser plus it has covered a brand new piece of rock work. Prior to switching over to a Fuel drip my Red Coralline Algae was receding. All corals and inverts are healthy and happy. Anecdotally, I have noticed lower polyp extension on my Large Polyp Stony Corals when Mg param is off does not matter high/low as long it is not the stable . I have a standard 90g Aquarium. My lighting is as follows 1x Orbit Marine Pro 1x Orbit Marine. Based on their documentation. I should have ~80-100 par on the tank bed in peak lighting areas. I will talk to my LFS about borrowing a par meter.

I use the Red Sea Blue Bucket mixed to 35 ppt 1.026 salinity
I have a GHL doser 2.1 4 pump which I have calibrated with a beaker.
I use the GHL doser to Auto top off the system.
My current dosing regime is as follows
90 ml ESV Bionic Mg spread out over 24 hrs daily
8 Aquavitro Seachem Fuel ml spread out over 24 hrs daily
ATO keeps the system at the same level so I have stable salinity parameters

Parameters are stable NSW parameters minus alk, I am working on that my Local Fish store used high alk premix, and I accidentally tried to chase a ph swing and brought my system out of balance.

I use Salifert Mg Titration kit. My numbers were consistent across two kits

My current Params are.
Mg 1280ppm maintained by doing 90 Ml of ESV bionic Mg. Tested with Salifert Mg Titration Test
Ca 426-430 ppm Currently, I am not dosing now that Mg is stable. Hanna Checker Ca
Alk 12.5 dKH Currently, I am not dosing bringing it down slowly over the course of a month 2x 5g water changes per week until it comes down to Red Sea blue bucket levels mixed at 35 ppt salinity Hanna Checker
Phosphates = 2.5 ppm per Hanna checker
Temp = 80.15 Degrees F

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have a lot of coralline algae on the rock work. Is there a study on the uptake rate of Coralline algae and Mg. I remember seeing it had a higher daily uptake rate of Mg compared to Ca. That data point of ca vs mg rate of change when mg falls has been consistent even before I started dosing. Initially pre-reef, I was running a very high nutrient system over 100ppm nitrate.

Coralline is one of the highest magnesium to calcium ratios of organisms we keep, but it is only about 4% magnesium by weight and is about 36% calcium by weight.

I show data for corals and coralline here:

Aquarium Chemistry: Magnesium In Reef Aquaria ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2003/chem.htm

 

[aeras1131]

Interesting, what do you think could be causing the mg uptake. Sponges? If my measurements were not correct. I would have nuked my corals about two weeks ago. Is there anything that you could think of. I keep meticulous mg ca and alk logs.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Interesting, what do you think could be causing the mg uptake. Sponges? If my measurements were not correct. I would have nuked my corals about two weeks ago. Is there anything that you could think of. I keep meticulous mg ca and alk logs.

There's no reef aquarium where magnesium daily uptake is more than a few ppm per day. Anything else is test error or a different effect (such as water changes messing with amounts or salinity changes due to imperfect evaporation replacement).

 

[aeras1131]

There's no reef aquarium where magnesium daily uptake is more than a few ppm per day. Anything else is test error or a different effect (such as water changes messing with amounts or salinity changes due to imperfect evaporation replacement).

Interesting then I'm stumped. I am highly doubtful my testing for mg is inaccurate. If it was, I would have about a mg equaling over 2000 ppm. and all my hermits would slow way down ) I guess we will have to call it a mystery.

 

[aeras1131]

Thank you very much for your assistance randy *cheeers*

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Interesting then I'm stumped. I am highly doubtful my testing for mg is inaccurate. If it was, I would have about a mg equaling over 2000 ppm. and all my hermits would slow way down ) I guess we will have to call it a mystery.

Some magnesium kits apparently read off even when used "correctly" by experienced reefers, some salt mixes have off levels of magnesium, or become inhomogeneous during transport. Maybe the B-ionic was not made correctly. Maybe someone bought it, used some, replaced it with water, and returned it. Could be lots of different possibilities.

 

[Shigshwa]

Some magnesium kits apparently read off even when used "correctly" by experienced reefers, some salt mixes have off levels of magnesium, or become inhomogeneous during transport. Maybe the B-ionic was not made correctly. Maybe someone bought it, used some, replaced it with water, and returned it. Could be lots of different possibilities.

And to add on to that, with the hobby titration tests, even putting one drop too much or too little will give you a whole ~20ppm of magnesium off, a bit of a large difference in terms of coral consumption. That's why I test magnesium on a monthly basis, so the difference on the test is more concrete.

 

[aeras1131]

Oh I am well aware of that. I don't measure by the drop. I measure by the .1 ml of the titration. Once I know roughly where I titrate our daily with dosing. I will go to the ml since a drop in the syringe is about .2 ml @Shigshwa. Is there a checker or checker like product for mg, even though titrating is pretty acurate down to the ml give or take 15 ppm. I'm talking 80ppm so that would be around .4ml on the syringe. This started after I started dripping Aquavitro fuel. Prior to this, I was manually dosing fuel per instructions. When I was manually dosing aqua vitro fuel, my Mg daily rate of change was flat. Really this dosing change revolves around this

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm talking 80ppm so that would be around .4ml on the syringe. This started after I started dripping Aquavitro fuel. Prior to this, I was manually dosing fuel per instructions. When I was manually dosing aqua vitro fuel, my Mg daily rate of change was flat. Really this dosing change revolves around this

FWIW, I consider this an impossibility (a rapid 80 ppm drop in magnesium from anything other than salinity changes or water changes ) and speculating on explanations is not going to be fruitful (IMO).

But that said, the ingredients in Fuel, whether dosed manually or automatically, should not do anything significant to reduce the consumption of magnesium.

 

[aeras1131]

Again I understand your opinion, and I know what I'm dosing against. Another chemical reaction could be happening. I will check back in a few months. I might reopen this conversation in a month or two.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Again I understand your opinion, and I know what I'm dosing against. Another chemical reaction could be happening. I will check back in a few months. I might reopen this conversation in a month or two.

There is no other sink for that much magnesium. It's not an opinion, but a chemistry reality.

That said, please do stop back and let us know how things are going.

 

[aeras1131]

@Randy Holmes-Farley
Sorry I used the wrong word. I meant to say. I understand where you are coming from. I appreciate everything you do here Randy. I am not arguing. I am simply discussing my personal reality . Do you actively create information right now. I love all the articles you post online. They are a beacon of hope in sea of ignorance. It is the main reason I am not using store salt water changes anymore or juiced salt and maintaining the natural sea water levels in my aquarium. I have a feeling once I get my Alk down to a normal level. I will not need to do WC's as frequently. How often do you think I should go in between water changes if I do not dose trace minerals. Do you think I could completely avoid water changes or minimize them if I dose trace minerals. If so, which trace supplement do you recommend? I accidentally misdiagnosed and chase low ph in the beginning of my reef experience and dosed Kent superdkh alk buffer, which is high in boron. I had it on hand at the time. Just as an aside. If you aquarium is high in boron which artificially raises your dKH. My corals are still using bicarbonates. Does that mean that even tho my alk is not fluctuating between 5g WC to lower alkalinity? I am still probably using bicarbonates? If so I should probably still be dosing alk??? Sorry for the logic leap if it is inaccurate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks. No, I’m not writing detailed articles at the moment. Too busy with other things (real life work, etc.).

If borate is very high, then bicarbonate is lower than you would think based on the alkalinity, corals are still taking up bicarbonate (unless it is too low), but they may have to be working harder to do so, and keeping alk higher than you ordinarily would might be justified. ,

 

[aeras1131]

Those were my thoughts exactly. Perhaps I should dose low levels of part b. I am using Brightwell 2 Part. I am lowering my borate levels down, and I know my Calcium uptake is very low. Over the course of 5 days were talking a 8 ppm/per day uptake rate. I am changing water 2x weekly 5g per change. Thanks.

 

[aeras1131]

Hello All,
I just want to complete a followup. Our houses refrigerator had a freon leak. After replacing the broken fridge with a new one, My Magnesium stabilized and the precipitation that was occurring which I was dosing against stopped. I can now go back to normal dosing. That is all
Thank you @Randy Holmes-Farley for all your help.

 

[aeras1131]

Can I get a mod to change the title of this thread? If randy sees no problem with it. I would like it changed to "Refridgerator leak and it's effects on Magnesium"