Dr Reef Quarantined Fish

[Wildreefs]

I never said longer is better. You made a blunt statement with no context (presumably to be snarky) and I responded accordingly.

How long should a fish be in QT?
Until treatment is finished and the fish is healthy and eating in observation. Be that 10 days or 20 days or whatever.

Not being snarky whatsoever . Just pointing out, if the science is correct, and that’s what everyone falls back on, 10 days of consistent 2.25 or higher copper, 2 rounds of prazi pro spaces apart according to parasite calculator, would cover the longest known period of time the parasite can stay on a fish by 3 days. Going longer goes means overshooting the science plus subjecting fish to lengthier periods of time in “poison”

 

[BeanAnimal]

Not being snarky whatsoever . Just pointing out, if the science is correct, and that’s what everyone falls back on, 10 days of consistent 2.25 or higher copper, 2 rounds of prazi pro spaces apart according to parasite calculator, would cover the longest known period of time the parasite can stay on a fish by 3 days. Going longer goes means overshooting the science plus subjecting fish to lengthier periods of time in “poison”

I can’t speak for anyone else’s expectations for time in medication beyond the indicated dosage for the identified issue.

The point is that each fish and situation is different.
Some fish may require no treatment, others prophylactic, and others multiple treatments or extended recovery time.

Likewise, the end-to-end process has more to it than just the "dunking the fish in medicine" part. We already talked about observation and eating. But there is also the sourcing and procurement of a suitable specimen to fill the order. Do you think for a second that the vendor doesn't deal with DOA or fish that are in terrible shape, etc? Supply shortages or gaps in availability? Shipping windows and workflows (I.E receive stock on Tuesday's and packs ships in Monday's or whatever). So many pieces to running a business like this.

In the end - the customer is paying white glove service for a fish instead of playing LFS roulette. The advantage is hopefully a quality fish that has been observed and quarantined and the risk is the danger of shipping where the seller and buyer are both exposed to loss.

In the LFS scenario the risk changes to disease and/or the burden of self quarantine and the benefit is that the LFS and wholesaler takes on the exposure to shipping loss.

 

[Wildreefs]

I can’t speak for anyone else’s expectations for time in medication beyond the indicated dosage for the identified issue.

The point is that each fish and situation is different.
Some fish may require no treatment, others prophylactic, and others multiple treatments or extended recovery time.

Likewise, the end-to-end process has more to it than just the "dunking the fish in medicine" part. We already talked about observation and eating. But there is also the sourcing and procurement of a suitable specimen to fill the order. Do you think for a second that the vendor doesn't deal with DOA or fish that are in terrible shape, etc? Supply shortages or gaps in availability? Shipping windows and workflows (I.E receive stock on Tuesday's and packs ships in Monday's or whatever). So many pieces to running a business like this.

In the end - the customer is paying white glove service for a fish instead of playing LFS roulette. The advantage is hopefully a quality fish that has been observed and quarantined and the risk is the danger of shipping where the seller and buyer are both exposed to loss.

In the LFS scenario the risk changes to disease and/or the burden of self quarantine and the benefit is that the LFS and wholesaler takes on the exposure to shipping loss.

Most of this sounds good on paper, but in reality, I wouldn’t trust anyone else to quarantine a fish for me. I can give a thousand reasons why, but short of it is, I have at some point reached out to the majority of the known qt people, here and a far (this website) and all of them have given me red flags. From slow micro dosing prazi pro, (prazi pro needs to be 2.5 mg/l, it dissipates quickly, so slow dosing it over days never gets to 2.5), to running copper “lower” on some fish (why give a pass to some just because there sensitive, if you do that to one you might as well do it to all) to even seeing a power house qt place, well known, be removed from a particular site (actually 2 qt power houses) simply because they had pulled back on some of there standards , ie, started to retreat from some of the treatment types and durations , most likely to minimize losses. I had 4-5 wrasses qtd for me, paid nearly triple retail, and 2 lasted 3 weeks.

that’s just surface stuff that’s out there. Let alone the behind the scenes stuff like doing. A water change then adding the copper in after, thus allowing it to drop for a period of time, or doing a water change with a big temp differential that may not reveal an issues until down the road. At the end of the day , only you know how thorough you are .

 

[BeanAnimal]

Most of this sounds good on paper, but in reality, I wouldn’t trust anyone else to quarantine a fish for me. I can give a thousand reasons why, but short of it is, I have at some point reached out to the majority of the known qt people, here and a far (this website) and all of them have given me red flags. From slow micro dosing prazi pro, (prazi pro needs to be 2.5 mg/l, it dissipates quickly, so slow dosing it over days never gets to 2.5), to running copper “lower” on some fish (why give a pass to some just because there sensitive, if you do that to one you might as well do it to all) to even seeing a power house qt place, well known, be removed from a particular site (actually 2 qt power houses) simply because they had pulled back on some of there standards , ie, started to retreat from some of the treatment types and durations , most likely to minimize losses. I had 4-5 wrasses qtd for me, paid nearly triple retail, and 2 lasted 3 weeks.

that’s just surface stuff that’s out there. Let alone the behind the scenes stuff like doing. A water change then adding the copper in after, thus allowing it to drop for a period of time, or doing a water change with a big temp differential that may not reveal an issues until down the road. At the end of the day , only you know how thorough you are .

This thread is about a QT vendor and QT vendors in general. If feel that you can do a better job at home, then do it.
I trust Dr.Reef and similar professionals more than I do myself with regard to diagnosing and treating a fish. Furthermore, I don’t have the time space or means to do it myself even if I did have the experience and knowledge.

 

[Wildreefs]

If a vendor was to advertise qted for 10-14 days vs 30 days, i can assure you people will buy from 30 day qt vendor than 10-14 days. The problem is not how long it takes to qt a fish, and i agree you can do a 10-14 days succesful qt but the blogs teach everyone to qt 30-45 days and thus its built in mindworks that anything less than that is bad qt.

Agreed 100 percent. Just like some people tell others to go 76 days fallow even tho the new trend is 45 days at 81 degrees. But hey, if someone wants to wait another month, so be it. The literature I think was geared towards in tank treatments where the tank is the where the fish would stay after treatment, which is totally different than 14 days copper than transfer out, to cover the front end of the life cycle, as opposed to guessing the back end

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Most of this sounds good on paper, but in reality, I wouldn’t trust anyone else to quarantine a fish for me. I can give a thousand reasons why, but short of it is, I have at some point reached out to the majority of the known qt people, here and a far (this website) and all of them have given me red flags. From slow micro dosing prazi pro, (prazi pro needs to be 2.5 mg/l, it dissipates quickly, so slow dosing it over days never gets to 2.5), to running copper “lower” on some fish (why give a pass to some just because there sensitive, if you do that to one you might as well do it to all) to even seeing a power house qt place, well known, be removed from a particular site (actually 2 qt power houses) simply because they had pulled back on some of there standards , ie, started to retreat from some of the treatment types and durations , most likely to minimize losses. I had 4-5 wrasses qtd for me, paid nearly triple retail, and 2 lasted 3 weeks.

that’s just surface stuff that’s out there. Let alone the behind the scenes stuff like doing. A water change then adding the copper in after, thus allowing it to drop for a period of time, or doing a water change with a big temp differential that may not reveal an issues until down the road. At the end of the day , only you know how thorough you are .

Unfortunately, I can also confirm this garbage is relatively commonplace.

 

[Dr. Reef]

@Wildreefs
That is exactly why I am no longer part of certain websites. I believe as long as I can provide a fish without ich/velvet/brook/uronema/flukes and internal worms and parasites then I am doing good.
There are a million other issues fish can have. I can't cure everything and somethings don't show up till after it's left my facility.
Also another thing that website didn't account for is that their other sponsors only sell few fish a month, we sell over 800-1000 fish per week.

There is no authority or department out there that gives you a certificate or license to practice quarantine on fish. Thus everyone has their own protocol.
I have heard so many times on this platform by certain people "oh so and so is not an approved qt vendor"
I wanna know whose that department or authority that gives you acknowledgement of being an approved qt vendor and by whose standards.

Again I am not perfect. We have sold over 7000 orders in last 4 years. We have a handful of complaints about ich and in most all cases after investigation found out that clients had put non qted stock in their tanks in form of snails rocks corals etc. There is 1 case that was never fully determined but client had ich in the tank and did fallow for 76 days and ich still showed up.

We have a dozen or so cases of prazi resistant flukes and secondary bacterial infection or viral like lymph. But all these smaller things are normally not deadly nor sometimes easily detectable till fish has already shipped. We do have measures in place now to prevent them but again we are not perfect.

My biggest goal is to prevent the deadly 4. Minor stuff can be taken care of, if it originates, later in most cases with a small dose of this or that.

 

[JOBrien701]

Nothing to worry about. They have to aquire the fish. Then qt the fish. Once they are ready. They will send you a link to pay. Then off they come to the house.

I have purchased several times from them and they are great to work with.
You are in good hands.

I know its a little late to the topic but I can also confirm that this is standard operating procedure as far as I can tell. A few things to add to this experience... I too was super skeptical after I went to place my order and was able to checkout with no payment information entered. So I chose to call their number and a gentleman answered and he asked me for my order number which I provided. He informed me of when I could expect the bill to be sent and when I could expect my delivery.. Everything came super well packaged with all specimens looking very alert, active, healthy, and took to eating almost immediately... My only complaint (honestly its not even that big of a deal to me but it might be to someone else) was that they didn't send 2 of the 5 fish I ordered. However, I did receive an email informing me of 1 of the fish hadn't survived the qt process but there was no mention of the other missing fish.. Again not that big of a deal. I mentioned it to them and were prompt about offering me either a refund or store credit. In addition to this and also another reason why it wasn't a big deal to me is because the reason I ordered 5 fish was to get me to the free shipping threshold which I no longer met with just the 3 fish. They didn't charge me for the shipping and I'm currently awaiting my refund to process on my card (this was a very recent purchase as in 2 days ago) which I have no doubt will arrive soon.