Dr Tims off scale ammonia

[jopo4343]

Hi
Using Dr Tims one and only on my waterbox peninsula 15.
Its day 7 test for ammonia is off scale with Red Sea test kit It pretty much a deep blue.
Read Dr Tims says to change 33-50 percent of water I did that this afternoon about half and just tested it’s the same?
Well not as blue maybe at 2ppm
How far off the chart was I?
Do I just wait it out now?
Any suggestions ideas thoughts?
WHAT DO I do next?
I am a little confused?
where to go from here?

 

[schuby]

Did you dose 2ppm of ammonia, then add One & Only, on day one? Or have you dosed more than 2ppm of ammonia?

 

[jopo4343]

Well I dosed according to the schedule. Yes I may have dosed to much ammonia. It would help if all the steps were in one place. I will not do cycling this way with Dr Tims again...something has to be better directions of how and when.

 

[jopo4343]

Where do I go from here?

 

[jopo4343]

Just finished testing nitrite it’s .5
Progress from 1 today..
Do I just use patience and wait or another small water change?

 

[schuby]

Patience. Ammonia going down and Nitrite going down. Almost there!

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

Keep going, until you see a slight drop in nitrites (10 ppm to on scale) then do a very hefty water change (75%) and wait 24 hours then you will likely be good to add some in inhabitants. Nitrite is non-toxic in marine setups and only useful to us to know when Nitrate converting bacteria have established. The large water change remove any remaining ammonia and will drastically reduce nitrates on startup.

When I cycle for a tank I throw the rock in a bucket with SW mixed to 1.015 and temp about 82 F. I dose ammonia to 2 ppm and add bacteria (fritz or dr tims) and wait until my nitrites are above a .5. I take the rock out and give it a good rinse with SW and add inhabitants the same day. The idea is that the cycle will continue on (nitrate bacteria will continue to increase in population) but for a starter bioload this is acceptable as you only need to support light feeding and respiration for a few fish (depending on tank size). You could follow suit and change all of your water out or wait.

 

[Azedenkae]

How many drops did you add each time you dose, how many times did you dosez and what is your actual water volume (not tank volume, water volume).

 

[jopo4343]

i dosed what the bottle of ammonia from dr Tims said 4 drops per gal so I went with 40 drops figured about 10 gal.
Dosed on the 1st, 3rd and 6th days.

 

[jopo4343]

I am thinking I should have went with fritz turbo start 900.
Would it work if I got a bottle and put it in now?
I have ammonia for it.

 

[Courtney Aldrich]

I think everything is working fine. Don't spend any more money. Just wait a little bit longer. I went through the exact same thing last month. The ammonia oxidizing bacteria do not grow well when the ammonia is higher than 5 ppm. I would also suggest increasing the temperature (82 °F), This will speed up the cycle. Lastly, the ammonia oxidizing bacteria grow better at lower salinities (25 ppt). Once the cycle is finished you can lower the temperature and raise the salinity.

 

[taricha]

Its day 7 test for ammonia is off scale with Red Sea test kit It pretty much a deep blue.
Read Dr Tims says to change 33-50 percent of water I did that this afternoon about half and just tested it’s the same?
Well not as blue maybe at 2ppm

Well I dosed according to the schedule. Yes I may have dosed too much ammonia.

You are correct in pinpointing the issue being off-the-charts high ammonia, One & Only doesn't like super high ammonia. Secondly, Even if it's decreasing, you can't see it because it's too high.

referencing this....
DrTims_Fishless_Cycling_Recipe_Mar19.pdf

"** If the ammonia or nitrite values are over 5 ppm NH3-N skip the next addition of ammonia drops."

So, if your test kit is red sea, then dilute (do water changes) until you can say you are on the chart - I know that's only 2ppm, but that's the kit you have. Don't try to guess what color 4 or 5ppm is based on a color card that maxes out at 2ppm.

(personal experience, I couldn't detect One&Only activity after a week at 5ppm, but at 0.5ppm there was detectable ammonia consumption within 24 hours.)

 

[Reefahholic]

Everything is working bro. Follow the instructions & schedule. I just dosed it and did a fishless cycle last December. Here’s the notes I used.


DrTim’s instructions for fishless cycle:

• Day 1 – dose ammonia to 2 ppm ammonia-nitrogen [NH3-N] using our ammonium chloride [After Nov 2016 when using DrTim’s ammonium chloride use 4 drops per gallon] [NOTE: do not expect your test kit to exactly read 2 ppm and it is not critical to get exactly 2 ppm. The key is to not add too much ammonia]. If using DrTim’s Aquatics One & Only Live Nitrifying bacteria add it now (turn skimmer, UV and ozone off and remove filter socks for 48 hours).
• Day 2 – Measure ammonia and nitrite.
• Day 3 – If ammonia and nitrite are below 1 ppm add more ammonia: four drops of our ammonium chloride per gallon (check the label).
• Days 4 & 5 – Measure ammonia and nitrite.
• Day 6 – If ammonia and nitrite are below 1 ppm add 2 ppm ammonia. Four drops of our ammonium chloride per gallon. [NOTE: since you have added the One & Only your ammonia kit will not read 2 ppm and DO NOT continue adding ammonia trying to get to 2 ppm – just add 2 ppm ammonia (4 drops per gallon of our ammonium chloride) and carry-on.
• Days 7 & 8 – Measure ammonia and nitrite. On the first measurement day (Day 2, 4, 5, 7 or 8) that BOTH ammonia and nitrite are both below 0.5 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N) your tank is close to being cycled.

• Now start to measure ammonia and nitrite every day.
• When BOTH ammonia and nitrite are below 0.2 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N), add another 2 ppm ammonia.
• Continue to measure every day. When you can add 2 ppm ammonia and BOTH ammonia and nitrite are below 0.2 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N) the next day your tank is cycled – congrats! You’re done!
• Do a partial water change and add some fish.
• If either ammonia or nitrite concentration get above 5 ppm, do water changes to lower the concentration.
• Do not let the pH drop below 7. If it does, do a partial water change to bring the pH back up.
• Do not add ammonia removers to bind the ammonia – overdosing with these products will just increase the cycling time.
• You do not have to add ammonia everyday – the bacteria do not have to be fed every day. Adding ammonia everyday will results in a sky-high nitrite reading and slow the cycling process.

 

[Reefahholic]

Here’s some helpful notes:


For “ONE and ONLY”

His bacteria are grown on a fine substrate (sand.) They are 100% natural and isolated from his own ponds and aquariums. They’re concentrated. These bacteria are Ammonia and Nitrite Oxidizer’s or Oxidizing bacteria. In the bottle these bacteria remain in Hibernation. As DrTim likes to say, “Bacteria don’t have lungs.” “They don’t need to breathe nor do they need oxygen in the bottle.” “They only need oxygen when they’re converting Ammonia and Nitrite.”They only do this in our aquariums. When they’re in the bottle, they’re basically just sitting there. They don’t need to be fed. They only need food to divide in our aquariums, but not in the bottle. They can last up to a year or longer in the bottle before you put them into your tank.


*Salinity is best kept at 1.013 - 1.015 or 18-20 ppt when cycling.


*Increase the temp 84-85 degrees when cycling. Nitrifiers are grow between 77* - 86* Fahrenheit. 25* - 30* Celsius.


After cycling is done, decrease the temperature and increase salinity over about 2-4 days to natural seawater or 1.025-1.026 obviously before you add fish or coral.


Bare Bottom tanks take much longer to cycle. Tanks with substrate will cycle much faster.


If using Live Sand...measure ammonia before adding (NH4CI). Most Live Sand products have a mixture of organic’s and Heterotrophic bacteria that have been sitting in the bag for a while. You open it up, stir it up, put it in the tank, add water and this adds lots of oxygen to these Heterotrophic bacteria and they will degrade the organic’s into ammonia. So you might already have enough ammonia to begin with.



-THINGS NOT TO DO-



-Don’t mix multiple bacteria species. You may be mixing the wrong bacteria together. Only use a pure mixture of Nitrifiers.


-Don’t use Ammonium Chloride (NH4CI) with scents or surfactants (soap).


-Don’t dose more than 4 ppm Ammonia. This will slow the bacteria down. Don’t dose Ammonia everyday. Only dose a couple times a week.


“Eliminate the competition”


-Don’t add or mix Heterotrophic bacteria.

-Don’t set up a GFO reactor because It will pull out needed phosphate.

-Remove mechanical filtration (filter pads, filter socks, etc.) until the bacteria adhere to the substrate or rocks. This takes about 48 hrs.

-Turn off skimmer for 48 hrs.

-Turn off UV for 48 hrs.

-Turn off Ozone for 48 hrs.

-Don’t setup any kind of denitrification, because this will promote the growth of bacteria that will steal the nutrients.

-Don’t dose Organic Carbon sources like Vodka, Vinegar, Sugars, etc. Sugars promote Heterotrophic bacteria that will compete with our Nitrifiers. Heterotrophs compete for surface area. They can divide in 20 minutes. They use organic carbon sources like the ones mentioned above and can crowd-out and/or bury your nitrifiers.

If you set up a tank and the next day it’s cloudy, it’s not Nitrifying bacteria. Nitrifying bacteria cannot grow that fast. Heterotrophic bacteria can and do grow that fast and take the available micronutrients (especially phosphate) and all bacteria need a little phosphate when growing. So never put a competitor in that can grow much faster and steal all the available micronutrients that our Nitrifiers need.

Keep the lights off when cycling. Lights promote algae! Algae will steal the phosphate in the system. Most brand-new reef tanks are limited on phosphate to begin with. So we want to avoid algae growth, because algae will restrict the growth of our Nitrifiers.


Hope this helps. Cheers!

 

[jopo4343]

Thanks all! I raised the temp to 82 as of now I am hoping that with yesterday’s water change will get it taken care of.
Do have one question the Red Sea ammonia test is limited to 2 what test kit goes up higher?
Thanks to all
Joe

 

[brandon429]

handy short trick:

change all your water out on day fourteen. you w be cycled/ all filtration bacteria stuck to surfaces.

one way of cycling requires you to clear the wastewater by wait, and any variables introduced along the way just add more wait.


another way of cycling does not (changing the water out on the date the bottle bac label says, or a few days after, saves you from having to clear the topwater it accomplishes nothing to wait that long, you paid for a legit quick start, can have)

one of the new findings in updated cycling science is that random variances in ammonia addition aren't harmful and specifically do not stall a cycle, they add to wastewater clearing wait time though. by changing out the wastewater on the date the label shows on the bottle bac, what's left over is a fully functioning cycle stuck to all surfaces and its testable by seneye machines after the full water change. that final full water change is how we begin most cycle assessment threads because it tests solely that which is adhered.

what this means is your current params don't matter, you'll just be changing them for new in a week or so.

 

[arking_mark]

Hi
Using Dr Tims one and only on my waterbox peninsula 15.
Its day 7 test for ammonia is off scale with Red Sea test kit It pretty much a deep blue.
Read Dr Tims says to change 33-50 percent of water I did that this afternoon about half and just tested it’s the same?
Well not as blue maybe at 2ppm
How far off the chart was I?
Do I just wait it out now?
Any suggestions ideas thoughts?
WHAT DO I do next?
I am a little confused?
where to go from here?

The ammonia test kits don't distinguish between free and total ammonia unless you are using a Seachem test or a Seneye.

Just follow Dr. TIims guidelines and you're good to go. Use the test kits as a simple yes/no to having ammonia/nitrite/nitrate.

 

[jopo4343]

Ok tested today
am 1.2
nitrite 1
patience will work I guess nothing else to do right?
no need to change more water?

 

[brandon429]

Do you want to go by post #16 or omit that option

not at day fourteen yet, if you want to use the option. It sure was a specific option that’s for sure, left no lack of clarity on follow up actions

 

[jopo4343]

Not at day 14 yet.
Just day 9