Dual Overflow Help

Discussion in 'General Equipment, Hardware, Filtration' started by kewpiereefypewpie, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. kewpiereefypewpie

    kewpiereefypewpie Member

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    Hello all,

    I thought I had a better idea on what I was doing here but apparently I absolutely don't.

    I bought a brand new 180 gallon aqueon dual overflow "megaflow" tank setup. I used the plumbing that the tank came with and therein is my problem.

    I don't know how to get a full siphon and I don't know how I would even match the flow of my return pump without some additional plumbing?

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  2. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru R2R Supporter Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    These aren't designed to run with a full siphon. They expect you to run with a two durso arrangement. It would be very challenging to set up a full siphon system with this setup.
     
  3. ca1ore

    ca1ore Valuable Member CTARS Member

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    Lived with single and dual overflow tanks from 1990 until two months ago, when I went with a single ghost style overflow. What an incredible improvement. Prior to the 'epiphany' and after trying just about all of the possible combinations/permutations I landed on just running each over flow as a herbie style (siphon/open channel). Requires making other arrangements for the return, of course. Either over the back or another hole. The practice of splitting the return or constraining it with locline is pointless IME.
     
  4. Neo Jeo

    Neo Jeo Active Member

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    I'm looking for a way to quite my overflow water that makes the splashing sound but I found this post. I noticed your tubing, make sure you put a clamp on the barb area so they dont slip off ;)
     
  5. MaiReef

    MaiReef Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Definitely Dual Durso. Not a full siphon system.
    1) Dual Durso 1" will provide plenty of flow and dead silent when you dial in the rate at which the water flows back into the system.
    2) How do I do this??? Well, funny you asked... The best in my opinion is to get a DC return pump. The second is to use a Union ball valve on the return and slowly close the valve until you get the return silent.
    3) I have found that the returns that come with overflows are not always the correct height and if they are not adjustable you may have to cut new PVC.
    4) I prefer to run a bigger pipe and then reduce at the bulkhead. Anecdotally, reduces the sound as well as putting a airline tube in the top.

    "A Durso Standpipe does not alter (reduce) the flow rate that can be processed in your system. Another limiting factor to consider is the bulkhead itself.

    Conservative estimates for bulkhead flow rates are as follows:

    • 3/4 inch - 350 gallons per hour per bulkhead (unconfirmed) (1325 liters per hour).
    • 1 inch - 600 gallons per hour per bulkhead (2275 liters per hour).
    • 1.5 inch - 1,500 gallons per hour per bulkhead (5675 liters per hour),
    If you feel you are not processing the expected the flow rate with a Durso Standpipe installed, then remove the standpipe to test and confirm your plumbing can process the flow without a standpipe. If this test fails, then you need to reduce your flow rate to match your plumbing." - https://www.dursostandpipes.com/fre...low-rates-are-possible-with-a-durso-standpipe

    6.7 times the gallons for the overflow works fine. I run my 100 gallon at approximately 5 times and it works flawlessly for over 4 years.

    *** It took me quite a while to get mine dialed in for silence. Height of the PVC was key with the tubing from the hole in the top.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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  6. Neo Jeo

    Neo Jeo Active Member

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    I like it man! Thanks! This is what I just did with the other of others on r2r. I have a gate valve to slow that water down. I guess my option is to raise the pipe that’s in my overflow? It’s a 1” pipe. I do not want to open the teeth up on the top. So by raising the pipe that will cause less of a waterfall effect correct? Right now I was raising the water by closing the gate valve kinda the same thing but might be best by raising the pipe. Am I on the right track?

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  7. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru R2R Supporter Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    You don't want to control level using the gate valve on the drain. The only adjustments you want to make on this are for noise issues.

    Level in the system is mainly determined by the amount of flow and the height of the PVC piping. So yes, to reduce that waterfall sound you want to raise the pipe.
     
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  8. MaiReef

    MaiReef Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    100% agree.
    The flow to the tank is where you want to control the flow and definitely not output. That output gate valve setup is for a Herbie overflow.

    Yes the height of the pipe vs. the flow to the tank is what controls the sound. The key is that you want enough drop to skim the surface of the water as it drains as to not have a film, but silent relative to the flow going through it. Sometimes the PVC height goes up and sometimes down relative to the exact flow going through it.

    In general, the lower flow, the lower volume of noise. To increase flow, you need to increase the height, but sometimes that isn't the best for surface skimming.



    **My advice is to start with a lower flow and get it silent and skimming and work your way up. It looks like your PVC is the adjustable ones which makes it much easier. You can make an etching where the adjustable part is right at the correct height.
     
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  9. Neo Jeo

    Neo Jeo Active Member

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    Thanks, Yes I can remove my PVC and keep my bulkhead attached. I was told by others that the gate valve will cause back pressure lowering noise in the sump as the water flys down. It has helped, so im happy i installed that. I will try lowering the flow and raising the height of the pvp pipe, I should have enough wiggle room vs. making a new pvp pipe. Also to get the best surface skimming is the ensure the water goes threw the teeth and drop down a little? I dont know much of the purpose of surface skimming.

    Thanks again for your info.
     
  10. bigroost

    bigroost Member

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    I wanted my overflows silent as well, I wound up using both pipes in the overflows as drains and brought the returns over the back. I put a gate valve on one of the pipes in each overflow and tuned the siphon and left the other 2 drains as emergencies. Google dual herbie overflows, my tank operates in complete silence plumbed this way.
     
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  11. MaiReef

    MaiReef Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Yes, part of the point of an overflow is to keep the surface of your aquarium crystal clear for oxygen transfer and to allow lighting to work at its peak. To do it correctly the gate valve will be wide open for the most flow.

    To reduce noise going into the sump there are many options. I put the flow below the water surface about 3". I then attached a cylinder sponge(https://www.amazon.com/LTWHOME-Pre-...8193778&sr=8-70&keywords=aquarium+pump+sponge) around the outside of the PVC to 1" above the base of the sump. There is no splash and the bubbles get smaller through the sponge as I do not use filter socks.
     
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  12. Neo Jeo

    Neo Jeo Active Member

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    Thanks well I did my final plumbing this was my second attempt. Now I just have to figure a way to silence what I have. I have a single overflow with 1 return and 1 overflow tube going down to sump.
     
  13. Neo Jeo

    Neo Jeo Active Member

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    The point of the gate valve was to stop the rushing water coming down, you saying I cant use the gate valve at all? Just wondering? So my only option is to raise the pvp pipe?
     
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  14. Neo Jeo

    Neo Jeo Active Member

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    The amount of flow going down my overflow is the rate of the return pump right? even if I close the gate valve a little to reduce splashing the flow should be the same because of the return correct?
     
  15. bigroost

    bigroost Member

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    I'm no expert but having a gate valve on your only drain sounds like a good way to have a flood. When I was fighting the same battle I tried the hoffer gurgle buster, it helped a bit but not as much as I wanted. I also tried running an airline down the drain also helped a bit, ultimately the only thing i could do with a single drain is slow the return down until the noise was tolerable.
     
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  16. MaiReef

    MaiReef Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    The gate valve should not be used on a drain unless you have a back up drain.
    The height of the PVC is part of it, but really you should valve the incoming flow. I know it sounds funny, but you can valve the tubing going into the tank and lower the flow that way and your whole system will be more quiet and run more efficiently.

    Think of it this way. Pouring water from a gallon jug. If you tip the jug completely upside down, the water chugs and gasps for air to allow drainage, but you get better flow if you get the correct air to water mixture coming out of the jug. Sometimes less is more.

    Flow is first, then air(which can be adjusted with a tube from the top of the Durso and a valve on that tube), and finally the height of the PVC. You could always cut another piece of PVC as manufacturers usually do not glue drains.

    ** If you play with that combination you will get just about complete silence and good flow. Mine is silent because it is in my family room and I do not want to hear my tank, just look at it. My overflow and sump water noise is less noise than the hum of my pumps. I most I hear from my tank is my ATO filling water periodically as I like to know it is functioning.
     
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  17. Neo Jeo

    Neo Jeo Active Member

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    Thanks for the tip. I can control my return by adjusting my DC pump. Now for the gate valve it was $35 and it dose seem to help if I close it a little, is it ok to use it a little? Also my DC pump has a float shut off system. I’m going to put it in the overflow section. If the water starts to rise as if my overflow pipe is clogged it will shut the return pump off. I like that system. I also install a “strainer” on my overflow pipe to stop snails .
     
  18. MaiReef

    MaiReef Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Cover your overflow with acylic or mesh and the snails will not get in, but again if that systems fails you could have a flood. The gate valve is just one more thing that can cause that. Using it is up to you. I would play with PVC height and airflow into the drain.
     
  19. Neo Jeo

    Neo Jeo Active Member

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    Well I think a strainer will work on the overflow? I seen them in the past. I also did buy a black acrylic top for it ;)
    Im glad my pump as a auto shut off on it if the water gets to high, so thats nice. The gate valve does slow the water down before it hits the water, the only way that will fail if a snail got in and got suck there is what I see. How else could it fail?
     
  20. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru R2R Supporter Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    The 2 main concerns are that it provides an edge where snails/fish/algae/debris can get caught instead of passing smoothly through. This makes it the most likely clog point. The other concern is that you can throttle it closed so much that its inherent built in safety won't function. Ideally, when a drain like this starts to clog the water level rises until it goes full siphon. This dramatically increases water flow making overfilling the tank less likely. It sounds like a toilet flushing over and over again when this happens. Without enough excess drain capacity, even the full siphon may not work the way you want.
     
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