E5 led/T5 lighting

[Euroquatics]

...Will it push out enough PAR for me to replace a Blue+? Not even close.

Measurements imply it's vey close actually and sometimes better depending on T5 lamp life. But that' just what customers are telling us that are doing the comparison.

 

[ifarmer]

We have a color mixing video on our FB page.

do you have a public url link to any youtube video? i dont have fb account so i can't access to your fb page.

 

[gcarroll]

A modern quality T5HO bulb like ATI has an output life with a programmed start ballast that is way past what we keep them on our tanks before replacing. Spectrum shift will occur before the bulb output is degraded to the point where it's useless and even that is unlikely to happen as 90% of reefers replace bulbs once a year. Running a bulb for 8 hours a day only yields <3000 hours of use in a year. The bulb output decay at 3000 hours is basically non-existant with a programmed start ballast. At 5000 hours based on a 12-hour cycle a bulb will have 95% lumen output. The bulb will be in the trash before it hits 5000 hours in our uses.

Bulb temp - T5 bulbs are most efficient when the ambient temp surrounding the bulb is 35C. If you run a fixture without the splash guard odds are you will not need much cooling as a climate controlled environment will be enough. This has been shown by the BRS testing where they took the splashguard off a sunpower and only had to run the fans at 3V to get max output out of the bulbs. If you run splashguard then fan output had to be upped to 6-9V to keep it cool enough for max efficiency. All this to say that most modern fixtures are very adept at cooling a T5 bulb to their greatest efficiency. Even if one uses a cheaper fixture with no cooling, all they have to do is not use a splash guard and this will get the ambient temp surrounding the bulb down enough to proper levels in a climate controlled room.

All these runarounds in regards to PAR are quite silly. So you get a visible fluorescence pop on your corals with these bulbs. Well guess what? I can do the exact same thing with a roll of SMD5630 and a 12V wall wart at a fraction of the price. Will they look super bright to my eyes? For sure. Will it push out enough PAR for me to replace a Blue+? Not even close.

I wondered where you were at. I was hoping you were not choking reading all the reviews of hobbyists claiming that they were pleases with the So you ask for PAR numbers and when they come out you let the thread go for a few pages then come on bashing as though they were not done. The reality you were hoping there results were different. On another forum you accused me of being a shill. I now have to ask what's your agenda?

luke33 has been around a while now. I don't think that his tests should have been dismissed the results the way you did it. Here is a refresher of his test results.

Par figures. I took three measurements in my tank, the t5's are 7 mths old which is how old the tank is in the pics. The par numbers with the t5's are 460-450-305 and with the e5's in I got 420-430-315 so imo the par figures are pretty close, for our purposes good enough.

 

[gus6464]

I wondered where you were at. I was hoping you were not choking reading all the reviews of hobbyists claiming that they were pleases with the So you ask for PAR numbers and when they come out you let the thread go for a few pages then come on bashing as though they were not done. The reality you were hoping there results were different. On another forum you accused me of being a shill. I now have to ask what's your agenda?

luke33 has been around a while now. I don't think that his tests should have been dismissed the results the way you did it. Here is a refresher of his test results.

Your theories are nice and all but at the end of the day someone else at RC got very different results with PAR in the 100's so right now they are all over the place. At the end of the day this total runaround by the manufacturer when it comes to PAR data and all the green spectrum BS is nothing but excuses. The bulbs have already been taken apart and shown that the build quality is questionable at best and the 8 year life is suspect. At the end of the day though you do you and keep on shilling. I am not the only one that has called you out on that.

 

[gcarroll]

PAR is irrelevant without a base number to compare it to. luke33's test included the comparison. How bout the guy in RC? IMO, @luke33 did a test that was typical to how a reefer would test the lighting. All I'm asking is that you not ignore the opinions of those with the bulbs. The bottom line is that the vast majority are happy with their purchase. Most all of us at this level in this hobby have plenty of PAR to spare. For me, coral color is king! These bulbs offer another way that people can add a little LED pop to their tanks with minimal investment, and no DIY modding.

 

[Euroquatics]

• We are not giving any runaround on PAR (we've indicated it's in process)
• The affects of green wavelengths on PAR meters is proven/shown (and presented at the last RAP show by Tulio)
• It's also a reported fact (shown by manufactures) that T5 have large green spikes
• ...and it's also a fact that wavelengths that region are not used at the levels provided (by T5) = waisted energy/PAR readings

Here's a great read on this topic and why PAR alone is not the indicator people think it is...
http://www.reefbrite.com/reefbrite-blog/
Credit to Tulio (again)

 

[Shep]

Just to be clear when you switch out an actinic bulb for a E5 blue pop this isn't an apple to apple change. Same goes for a blue+ bulb. You may see a pop/ change with your eyes but the corals are getting a whole different spectrum than they were before, which may be good or bad.

In other words a blue pop isn't going to be a replacement for a blue+ or an actinic bulb.
You're changing the lighting over your tank to a totally different spectrum.

For strictly pop to your eyes you should really compare it to a blue reefbrite or any other strip of blue 450 leds. They are basically the same spectrum wise.

Based off of the photos you posted, I think its a bit extreme to say that the lights are completely different spectrums. Both sets of pictures are very similar in their peaks, with the biggest differences being the Rel. Intensity values. While these are meant replicate T5 lighting, they are not actually T5s so some variance is to be expected. So far the company has been pretty upfront about everything and they have a very valid claim regarding the PAR numbers. T5 output is going to depend on so many different things that any PAR value comparisons would have so many * next to them that it would make the data pointless.

 

[Damon]

Just curious, and is imagine the answer is yes.. For those that have received their bulbs, are they running cooler as far as the temperature of the actual bulb? I am asking, because my t5 bulbs get decently warm( simply end cap setup , with reflector and bulbs and using them as fill lighting for my primary led system). I know this isn't really good for the bulbs versus say, a cooled fixture, but my purpose is only for fill lighting with t5. Any input would be great, as I honestly don't want to replace my t5 bulbs(3 60" blue plus), and these may fit them bill when the time comes..

Also, even though they have a reflector built into them, are there any advantages to running them with a traditional reflector? Such as, for the longer bulbs like I use, and the potential "bowing".. Would using the bulb clips and reflector that are typical on the t5 retro reflectors to assist with this issue, as in giving more support?

 

[Big E]

Shep wrote---

Based off of the photos you posted, I think its a bit extreme to say that the lights are completely different spectrums. Both sets of pictures are very similar in their peaks, with the biggest differences being the Rel. Intensity values. While these are meant replicate T5 lighting, they are not actually T5s so some variance is to be expected. So far the company has been pretty upfront about everything and they have a very valid claim regarding the PAR numbers. T5 output is going to depend on so many different things that any PAR value comparisons would have so many * next to them that it would make the data pointless.

I'll give you those are crude charts.....maybe these will help--

Cree 450 Royal Blue Led from Cree website & blue pop---------I don't see any difference in these two.

Blue+ spectral chart done by PacSun--

To suggest a blue pop that peaks and only shows one single spectrum at 450 is the same as an actinic bulb that peaks at 420 makes no sense at all. I don't see any reason to post another actinic chart to show that.

It remains to be seen what the performance will be ................right now I'm not sure they can do what a strip of 450 leds can do in combination with a Coral+ bulb. That would be the combination I would initially try in a 50/50 combo.

The only reason par is relevant to me is that it needs to put out similar numbers to a Blue+ so it wouldn't get washed out by a Coral+. If the numbers are realtively close I'd be okay with that.

In the end as Greg mentioned all I care about is if they can produce the same acropora colors I enjoy using T5 bulbs. If they can, I'm all for it. I'm not the type of person that wants to be a field study for any new technology.

 

[Reefbrite]

Gentlemen in all fairness PAR alone cannot be used to evaluate or compare the suitability of light sources for coral health and growth as PAR meters measure Photon Flux in the visible region and not spectral composition. Apogee them selves states the same thing. The only way to accurately evaluate and compare light sources is with a spectrometer using spectral scaling so that light sources can be compared based on spectral composition and intensity regardless of the wattage or type of light source tested. For example an HPS lamp will give a very high PAR reading yet its use over a reef aquarium is certainly not suggested as I demonstrated at Reefapalooza during my talk when I showed the PAR reading vs. the actual spectral composition using my Ocean Optics spectrometer. I have also demonstrated that a simple Green laser aimed at a PAR sensor can also produce a very high PAR reading yet it would not be advisable for use. PAR meters weight photons in the visible range differently and cannot discern between the wavelengths of light being emitted. This is based on information from Apogee. Also there are correction factors that need to be taken into account depending on the light source. Here is the typical response curve of a PAR sensor supplied by Apogee. As you see it falls off in the blue region making it difficult to get accurate readings from light sources emitting blue light especially LED's.

 

[ChrisAndJulie2012]

y'all are making my head hurt! I am sure I am not alone. I bought mine out of seeing the pictures of the blue pop, liked what they seem to do and figured I would give it a try. .

I like the idea behind the technology and tbh wanted to make the wife ask why I spent 120 on two light bulbs. lol

I'm going to post pictures of my bulbs when I get them this friday. I also say all this as I don't have $4k in tank inhabitants either and understand one may worry so much on exact PAR readings and wavelengths.

Happy Reefing.

 

[luke33]

Your theories are nice and all but at the end of the day someone else at RC got very different results with PAR in the 100's so right now they are all over the place. At the end of the day this total runaround by the manufacturer when it comes to PAR data and all the green spectrum BS is nothing but excuses. The bulbs have already been taken apart and shown that the build quality is questionable at best and the 8 year life is suspect. At the end of the day though you do you and keep on shilling. I am not the only one that has called you out on that.

I think your taking this convo a bit to serious, this is a hobby, not life or death. The fact you called gcarroll a shill is pretty rediculous, he has been in the reef communities for 10+ yrs giving good advice. Do these bulbs have as high of par as nice t5's like geismann or ati......no, but from what I see with my apogee meter they are close enough for most. Would I swap out all my t5's for e5's? Heck no as that defeats the purpose for me. If I had a 4 bulb fixture would I would only run one e5. I don't think euroquatics is giving anyone the run around here, if you don't care for their answers then don't back there product, but why sit around and harass them? For me there is nothing better right now astetically for my setup as hanging blue led's on the side of my fixture is not an option. These work perfect for my setup.

 

[luke33]

Just curious, and is imagine the answer is yes.. For those that have received their bulbs, are they running cooler as far as the temperature of the actual bulb? I am asking, because my t5 bulbs get decently warm( simply end cap setup , with reflector and bulbs and using them as fill lighting for my primary led system). I know this isn't really good for the bulbs versus say, a cooled fixture, but my purpose is only for fill lighting with t5. Any input would be great, as I honestly don't want to replace my t5 bulbs(3 60" blue plus), and these may fit them bill when the time comes..

Also, even though they have a reflector built into them, are there any advantages to running them with a traditional reflector? Such as, for the longer bulbs like I use, and the potential "bowing".. Would using the bulb clips and reflector that are typical on the t5 retro reflectors to assist with this issue, as in giving more support?

Yes these run cooler than a t5 bulb. Adding clips would help the bowing and bring the bulb closer to the reflector, but I don't see this helping reflect much light as these are not made to reflect like t5.

 

[buzzword]

I think your taking this convo a bit to serious, this is a hobby, not life or death. The fact you called gcarroll a shill is pretty rediculous, he has been in the reef communities for 10+ yrs giving good advice. Do these bulbs have as high of par as nice t5's like geismann or ati......no, but from what I see with my apogee meter they are close enough for most. Would I swap out all my t5's for e5's? Heck no as that defeats the purpose for me. If I had a 4 bulb fixture would I would only run one e5. I don't think euroquatics is giving anyone the run around here, if you don't care for their answers then don't back there product, but why sit around and harass them? For me there is nothing better right now astetically for my setup as hanging blue led's on the side of my fixture is not an option. These work perfect for my setup.

Here, here! Well stated and thanks for posting PAR results, at least you did something tangible that your statement's reflect. "Close enough for most".

 

[915MANG]

Do these actually give the corals the POP? That leds do? I was thinking about doing the Nanobox led retro. But if this does the POP that im looking for then this is the way to go.

 

[Damon]

Yes these run cooler than a t5 bulb. Adding clips would help the bowing and bring the bulb closer to the reflector, but I don't see this helping reflect much light as these are not made to reflect like t5.

Thanks much for the reply! I appreciate it greatly.. Now, I have to figure out how to incorporate 2 into my 3 bulb t5 supplemental lighting(2 in the front of led and 1 in the back).. I'm running 2 blue + in the front and 1 super atinic in the back.. My kind hearted girlfriend ordered 2 blue pop for me as a late valentine day present(Lol, I left my laptop screen split between Marine Depot and their site, so she put two and two together) .. They will be here Tuesday..

So I will plan on using my reflectors, just for the bowing(60" bulbs). And I look forward to hopefully providing feedback..

 

[luke33]

Do these actually give the corals the POP? That leds do? I was thinking about doing the Nanobox led retro. But if this does the POP that im looking for then this is the way to go.

The blues give your coral the led pop , that is the reason I have them

 

[Euroquatics]

Big E - Just so you know we also have a forthcoming Blue Daylight lamps that has a very blue (but also a fuller spectrum component). But just to be up front, no one (from Euroquatics) is claiming that the Blue Pop alone is enough to sustain a reef tank! We're very clear about that as that build is just for the "Pop" that so many are looking for. But when paired with the other Daylight lamps, you will get VERY nice coloration and a beautiful full spectrum (minus UV) over your aquarium. Here are a few pictures from our color mixing video these are only E5 over the office tank (4 x 4' - not enough for good growth over such deep tank), but it's just to show some mixing options...

We started with 4 x Blue Pop (the 450nm never photos well), then I started to swap out lamps mixing Blue Pop and Cool Daylight and then Blue Pop and Daylight and Warm Daylight. Then just the Daylight lamps... Anyway, we'll have a more comprehensive photo shoot soon, this was a rush to get the color mixing up before I left on a business trip. But this really shows the output and mixing options you have with a simple 4 lamp fixture. We have customers with 8 lamp fixtures doing some beautiful tanks on E5! Doing all E5/T5 on this tank would take an 8 lamp fixture (because of the depth).

More of this AND PAR READINGS coming soon. HAHA

 

[ChrisAndJulie2012]

I just installed our two 36" Blue Pop's into our fixture. Its a 72" fixture so four rows of 36's. It goes, old T5 Acetic, 10K, Blue Pop, Acetic. Without the Mh's on, it def brings out the neon in corals and is really a deep blue almost like dusk in deeper waters.

I took a few pictures and will take more later this evening. But here are a few tease shots.

This are with my Mh's on and warming up, I didn't get the E5's installed before the timer turned them off.

I bought the fixture with two different Mh bulbs thats is why the one on the left side of the tank looks more crisp while the center and right looks more daylight.

I will add more, once I get a few things done before dark.

 

[Damon]

Goofy question.. This is actually on shipping from marine Depot.. With these bulbs, I haven't seen any movement from ups since the 17th. Did you guys have constant movement with your shipment? Or did they just all of appear?