Ecotech radion g5 knock off found!

[Koh23]

I'm pretty sure that high end fixtures use more expensive leds than the budget options. Well, at least they should.

Somewhat true.

High end fixtures uses more quality controlled leds than the budget options.

That is all. Cost is unknown to us, we don't know how many $ big name pays for, lets say, 1000 cree leds. We don't know how many $ some random dude from net that sells on ebay pays for 1000 cree leds. All we can see price for which they are selling it.

It all comes down to that big manufacturers have strict quality control, they want xy numbers of leds with same cri, from same bin, and all of xy leds must behave and operate exactly the same, under any given working condition.

To make parallel to, lets say pc world - you can buy memory sticks, 2 sticks, from same manufacturer, same model, same manufactory date. But, they probably wouldn't perform same. In 90% of cases, they do. Or at least, under given circumstances, they appear that they do. Rest is something that manufacturer won't take responsibility, max speed, timings, voltage required to "something".... they can vary from "slightly same" to "not even close to be same"....

BUT if you buy "2xsomething memory sticks" as KIT, then, in any given operating condition, both stick would perform and act identically. No exceptions that could be related to fact that this is 2xsomething, instead 1xsomething.

Big names buys leds as KITS. All of number of leds are the same, behave same, have same cri, have same output, have same thermal solution, have same.... everything. And to repeat, they will perform identically. Anytime, anywhere, anyhow.

Small buyers gets what big simply don't buy. Because lower quality, because they don't need so many of them - that all goes to "insert any name here". So, that our hero "any name here" can buy and get mix of exact same leds that are sold to "big name here", and poor quality leds that will burn out in first second. But, it's ok, because, on 10000000 (imaginary number) of purchased leds, because massive buying and low price, they simply dont care if some % of them are totaly garbage. They will be discarded, used in manufacturing some generic "light units", or sold per piece to random peoples all over the world.

They can't know what quality they get, they don't have interest in testing, comparing, they simply don't care about any of that. That is cheap led. Not always equal to garbage led.

Big names - they do. They demand exact, same, identical leds each time. No exceptions. Because their expensive product depends on quality, and fact that every unit they make MUST be same, perform same. And if, in some weird case, they get from cree (lets say) shipment of leds that don't meet these requirements - that is a BIG problem. For them, and for manufacturer.

I worked in company that make parts for BMW. Engine parts. They produce about 1000 of these parts each day. And shipped to BMW at weekly basis. Each single part is tested, checked, tested again, to be sure that he meet all requirements that BMW have for this part. And all it takes is ONE, just ONE part, which is slightly different, perform some test slightly different, have slightly different texture, color, weight - all in margin of error, which is hard to avoid... and production line in BMW is stopped, they send ALL parts back, they don't have time or will to test and check each part, they pack and ship back all of them. All that is manufactured and shipped to them from last time that error is noticed, until last one. We talk about thousands, ten thousands of parts that is returned to manufacturer, along with serious money fine, along with taking whole business in risk. Of course, not all parts are bad. It can be this only one, one part, but, now, instead of making money of producing and selling new parts, manufacturer have to recheck each single one again, ship it again, total money and time loss....

So...that's why...

 

[Harold999]

Somewhat true.

High end fixtures uses more quality controlled leds than the budget options.

That is all. Cost is unknown to us, we don't know how many $ big name pays for, lets say, 1000 cree leds. We don't know how many $ some random dude from net that sells on ebay pays for 1000 cree leds. All we can see price for which they are selling it.

It all comes down to that big manufacturers have strict quality control, they want xy numbers of leds with same cri, from same bin, and all of xy leds must behave and operate exactly the same, under any given working condition.

To make parallel to, lets say pc world - you can buy memory sticks, 2 sticks, from same manufacturer, same model, same manufactory date. But, they probably wouldn't perform same. In 90% of cases, they do. Or at least, under given circumstances, they appear that they do. Rest is something that manufacturer won't take responsibility, max speed, timings, voltage required to "something".... they can vary from "slightly same" to "not even close to be same"....

BUT if you buy "2xsomething memory sticks" as KIT, then, in any given operating condition, both stick would perform and act identically. No exceptions that could be related to fact that this is 2xsomething, instead 1xsomething.

Big names buys leds as KITS. All of number of leds are the same, behave same, have same cri, have same output, have same thermal solution, have same.... everything. And to repeat, they will perform identically. Anytime, anywhere, anyhow.

Small buyers gets what big simply don't buy. Because lower quality, because they don't need so many of them - that all goes to "insert any name here". So, that our hero "any name here" can buy and get mix of exact same leds that are sold to "big name here", and poor quality leds that will burn out in first second. But, it's ok, because, on 10000000 (imaginary number) of purchased leds, because massive buying and low price, they simply dont care if some % of them are totaly garbage. They will be discarded, used in manufacturing some generic "light units", or sold per piece to random peoples all over the world.

They can't know what quality they get, they don't have interest in testing, comparing, they simply don't care about any of that. That is cheap led. Not always equal to garbage led.

Big names - they do. They demand exact, same, identical leds each time. No exceptions. Because their expensive product depends on quality, and fact that every unit they make MUST be same, perform same. And if, in some weird case, they get from cree (lets say) shipment of leds that don't meet these requirements - that is a BIG problem. For them, and for manufacturer.

I worked in company that make parts for BMW. Engine parts. They produce about 1000 of these parts each day. And shipped to BMW at weekly basis. Each single part is tested, checked, tested again, to be sure that he meet all requirements that BMW have for this part. And all it takes is ONE, just ONE part, which is slightly different, perform some test slightly different, have slightly different texture, color, weight - all in margin of error, which is hard to avoid... and production line in BMW is stopped, they send ALL parts back, they don't have time or will to test and check each part, they pack and ship back all of them. All that is manufactured and shipped to them from last time that error is noticed, until last one. We talk about thousands, ten thousands of parts that is returned to manufacturer, along with serious money fine, along with taking whole business in risk. Of course, not all parts are bad. It can be this only one, one part, but, now, instead of making money of producing and selling new parts, manufacturer have to recheck each single one again, ship it again, total money and time loss....

So...that's why...

The easiest way of producing cheaper fixtures is to use lower cri leds because they are much cheaper than higher cri leds of the same power. Also leds with less dimming precision (the whites from the Blackbox are very bright even at 1% strength) are cheaper.
You will not find the exact same type of led in a Kessil as in it's knockoff.

 

[xxxenmsy]

If you have any questions about A8, please contact me and I will help you. My friends in China also have A7 and A8

In terms of counterfeits/stolen designs I would say that it was a pleasure to enjoy the reef tank for less money

 

[xxxenmsy]

If you have any questions about A8, please contact me and I will help you. My friends in China also have A7 and A8

In terms of counterfeits/stolen designs I would say that it was a pleasure to enjoy the reef tank for less money

I am also Chinese and I can also help if there is any problem with APP operation

 

[Koh23]

The easiest way of producing cheaper fixtures is to use lower cri leds because they are much cheaper than higher cri leds of the same power. Also leds with less dimming precision (the whites from the Blackbox are very bright even at 1% strength) are cheaper.
You will not find the exact same type of led in a Kessil as in it's knockoff.

We agree in essence, no problem in that...

All i'm saying, these leds must come from somewhere... And those guys who sells on ebay, or some small "home" manufacturer, (i really don't want to bring anyone here, because i don't know anything about their production) simply don't care (at some extent) what are they buying.

Whatever they get, it will either be sold again, or simply used in another, even lower level "garage built unit".

So yes, cheaper units uses cheaper leds, sure. But, that is not only limiting factor. There's much more .

 

[TheyGaveItToMe]

The higher end stuff is slowly pricing themselves out. That has nothing to do with the cheaper stuff. Ecotech doesn't care what the cheap stuff is priced at. They know their costs and their margins. They price according to that. That is how any successful business runs.

If the majority of people buy knockoffs, there will be no one to knock off at some point. Plenty of cheap options out there already from companies that actually took some time to create something instead of just steal it.

Peace

This is what happens when you offshore your production instead of supporting , manufacturing in your country it isn't theft is is giving your ideas away.

Somewhat true.

High end fixtures uses more quality controlled leds than the budget options.

That is all. Cost is unknown to us, we don't know how many $ big name pays for, lets say, 1000 cree leds. We don't know how many $ some random dude from net that sells on ebay pays for 1000 cree leds. All we can see price for which they are selling it.

It all comes down to that big manufacturers have strict quality control, they want xy numbers of leds with same cri, from same bin, and all of xy leds must behave and operate exactly the same, under any given working condition.

To make parallel to, lets say pc world - you can buy memory sticks, 2 sticks, from same manufacturer, same model, same manufactory date. But, they probably wouldn't perform same. In 90% of cases, they do. Or at least, under given circumstances, they appear that they do. Rest is something that manufacturer won't take responsibility, max speed, timings, voltage required to "something".... they can vary from "slightly same" to "not even close to be same"....

BUT if you buy "2xsomething memory sticks" as KIT, then, in any given operating condition, both stick would perform and act identically. No exceptions that could be related to fact that this is 2xsomething, instead 1xsomething.

Big names buys leds as KITS. All of number of leds are the same, behave same, have same cri, have same output, have same thermal solution, have same.... everything. And to repeat, they will perform identically. Anytime, anywhere, anyhow.

Small buyers gets what big simply don't buy. Because lower quality, because they don't need so many of them - that all goes to "insert any name here". So, that our hero "any name here" can buy and get mix of exact same leds that are sold to "big name here", and poor quality leds that will burn out in first second. But, it's ok, because, on 10000000 (imaginary number) of purchased leds, because massive buying and low price, they simply dont care if some % of them are totaly garbage. They will be discarded, used in manufacturing some generic "light units", or sold per piece to random peoples all over the world.

They can't know what quality they get, they don't have interest in testing, comparing, they simply don't care about any of that. That is cheap led. Not always equal to garbage led.

Big names - they do. They demand exact, same, identical leds each time. No exceptions. Because their expensive product depends on quality, and fact that every unit they make MUST be same, perform same. And if, in some weird case, they get from cree (lets say) shipment of leds that don't meet these requirements - that is a BIG problem. For them, and for manufacturer.

I worked in company that make parts for BMW. Engine parts. They produce about 1000 of these parts each day. And shipped to BMW at weekly basis. Each single part is tested, checked, tested again, to be sure that he meet all requirements that BMW have for this part. And all it takes is ONE, just ONE part, which is slightly different, perform some test slightly different, have slightly different texture, color, weight - all in margin of error, which is hard to avoid... and production line in BMW is stopped, they send ALL parts back, they don't have time or will to test and check each part, they pack and ship back all of them. All that is manufactured and shipped to them from last time that error is noticed, until last one. We talk about thousands, ten thousands of parts that is returned to manufacturer, along with serious money fine, along with taking whole business in risk. Of course, not all parts are bad. It can be this only one, one part, but, now, instead of making money of producing and selling new parts, manufacturer have to recheck each single one again, ship it again, total money and time loss....

So...that's why...

I have worked in manufacturing for well over a decade. Some time the only difference between a product is the packaging. Some times a product that is cheaper to manufacture sells for more than a product that has a higher cost to manufacture just because brand recognition/demand. What takes more R/D a LED light fixture or a cylinder head for a BMW? Why do you think they should be priced the same?

And, your story about each part being checked and rechecked is a cool story. But, that is not going to happen with a sub $1 led. The labor cost makes it impossible, Even in food and ammunition manufacturing I have never seen anything other than spot/batch testing; and I have worked for fortune 50 companies and currently work for a fortune global 500 company.

 

[Koh23]

Some times a product that is cheaper to manufacture sells for more than a product that has a higher cost to manufacture just because brand recognition/demand. What takes more R/D a LED light fixture or a cylinder head for a BMW? Why do you think they should be priced the same?

Sorry, don't understand, what is question here, i never say that anything should be priced same as anything.

As for story, yes, it is cool, but it is truth. Of course, company produced many thing, where quality is based on batch testing, 1 out of 100, or 1 out of 1000. But, in this case, and in some similar cases, quality control and testing was 1/1 - each piece needed to be visually inspected, tested on various machines and computers, then, and only then part is ready for packaging.

Of course, nobody, and surely not me, say that cree or any led manufacturer have such strict control. It was simply ilustration that big companies often have very high demand regarding quality, and same applies to reef led lights manufacturers. They, i assume, have higher standards about what each diode needs to be, and how to behave, than some random garage light maker.

 

[Superlightman]

Somewhat true.

High end fixtures uses more quality controlled leds than the budget options.

That is all. Cost is unknown to us, we don't know how many $ big name pays for, lets say, 1000 cree leds. We don't know how many $ some random dude from net that sells on ebay pays for 1000 cree leds. All we can see price for which they are selling it.

It all comes down to that big manufacturers have strict quality control, they want xy numbers of leds with same cri, from same bin, and all of xy leds must behave and operate exactly the same, under any given working condition.

To make parallel to, lets say pc world - you can buy memory sticks, 2 sticks, from same manufacturer, same model, same manufactory date. But, they probably wouldn't perform same. In 90% of cases, they do. Or at least, under given circumstances, they appear that they do. Rest is something that manufacturer won't take responsibility, max speed, timings, voltage required to "something".... they can vary from "slightly same" to "not even close to be same"....

BUT if you buy "2xsomething memory sticks" as KIT, then, in any given operating condition, both stick would perform and act identically. No exceptions that could be related to fact that this is 2xsomething, instead 1xsomething.

Big names buys leds as KITS. All of number of leds are the same, behave same, have same cri, have same output, have same thermal solution, have same.... everything. And to repeat, they will perform identically. Anytime, anywhere, anyhow.

Small buyers gets what big simply don't buy. Because lower quality, because they don't need so many of them - that all goes to "insert any name here". So, that our hero "any name here" can buy and get mix of exact same leds that are sold to "big name here", and poor quality leds that will burn out in first second. But, it's ok, because, on 10000000 (imaginary number) of purchased leds, because massive buying and low price, they simply dont care if some % of them are totaly garbage. They will be discarded, used in manufacturing some generic "light units", or sold per piece to random peoples all over the world.

They can't know what quality they get, they don't have interest in testing, comparing, they simply don't care about any of that. That is cheap led. Not always equal to garbage led.

Big names - they do. They demand exact, same, identical leds each time. No exceptions. Because their expensive product depends on quality, and fact that every unit they make MUST be same, perform same. And if, in some weird case, they get from cree (lets say) shipment of leds that don't meet these requirements - that is a BIG problem. For them, and for manufacturer.

I worked in company that make parts for BMW. Engine parts. They produce about 1000 of these parts each day. And shipped to BMW at weekly basis. Each single part is tested, checked, tested again, to be sure that he meet all requirements that BMW have for this part. And all it takes is ONE, just ONE part, which is slightly different, perform some test slightly different, have slightly different texture, color, weight - all in margin of error, which is hard to avoid... and production line in BMW is stopped, they send ALL parts back, they don't have time or will to test and check each part, they pack and ship back all of them. All that is manufactured and shipped to them from last time that error is noticed, until last one. We talk about thousands, ten thousands of parts that is returned to manufacturer, along with serious money fine, along with taking whole business in risk. Of course, not all parts are bad. It can be this only one, one part, but, now, instead of making money of producing and selling new parts, manufacturer have to recheck each single one again, ship it again, total money and time loss....

So...that's why...

don't compare the automobile industry and reef led manufacturer , it is not comparable at all... these are way smaller companies and not have all this process, most of them are Produce in China , other order the pieces and just assemble it. I know one china factory from a famous manufacturer, the led he claims he develops, crap he just took what the manufacturer did, and I got the exact same leds for 1/3 off the price and I just order a few. Material 100 identical, The only difference was the logo... so if I get for 4 1/3 of the price , I can just imagine how much thousand of them would cost. Reef leds are clearly overpriced.

 

[telegraham]

I had a chance to disassemble and play with the A8. It doesn't suck. Suggestions that they copied the ETM internals seem exaggerated and Mobius integration would be like using the BRS website to control an airplane. Ain't happening.

I have some more tuning to do to get it to align with AB+, but at the settings and spectrum shown, it pulled 129W. By comparison, my G4 XR30 pulls 126W at AB+ so I'm assuming the final A8 spectrum will pull in the low 120s. Also worth noting that it certainly isn't weak, as it'll hit 190W with all sliders at 100%. That's respectable.

I have some more testing to do, including the PAR/spread map and an app how-to guide, but this light will absolutely grow coral. You just have to be comfortable with near-zero support and an app that's in Chinese.

 

[telegraham]

@Shooter6 … there ya go!

 

[Matt1997]

Whoever says Ecotech uses higher quality components than “x” either never owned an Ecotech product and is regurgitating what they were told or has only ever owned an Ecotech product and loves Ecotech. Their retail price comes down to corporate greed. Simple as that.

I have and will likely always own something Ecotech. I like the lights and most of their equipment. I’m always upgrading/downgrading/changing my system and Ecotech gear holds value. I would love to test out all these “knock off” lights but if I don’t like it I can’t imagine getting 10% of what I spent back.

My previous display tank ran 3 radion g4 pros. The second display ran 3 hydra 62hds. Frag tank ran 6 radion Gen 2s with the second frag tank running 4 AI prime HDs. My coffee table reef uses an AI prime and my current display runs g5 radions. I’ve had radions/AI lights dating back to their release dates.

I’ve bought some lights used, some new. There has been no correlation between equipment failure regardless of buying new or used. I’ve had a few radions crap out which I recently repaired with the help and advice from a member on here. The replacement parts were sourced locally, very cheaply, and work just like the originals. I’ve had ballasts fail (I actually have replacement part coming from China to fix old aluminum sink white ballast on radion, guess where the original “high quality” part was made?) I’ve had Vega, and Ai prime lights that caught on fire. Interestingly only happened with AI, support told me I was crap out of luck and offered a 5%(?) Discount but I’d need to cover return shipping. Ended up being more expensive than buying a new one locally). I’ve had fans fail on multiple radions. Replaced them once again with a generic 8015 Chinese fan. Same specs as the ones used on radions. I’ve bought “broken/parts radions” and have repaired them myself. Parts once again came from China. Identical to the parts initially used.

 

[2Wheelsonly]

I feel like managing a Chinese app that potentially is loaded with malware and other crap is still a better option than using Mobius right now.

 

[Beefyreefy]

I had a chance to disassemble and play with the A8. It doesn't suck. Suggestions that they copied the ETM internals seem exaggerated and Mobius integration would be like using the BRS website to control an airplane. Ain't happening.

I have some more tuning to do to get it to align with AB+, but at the settings and spectrum shown, it pulled 129W. By comparison, my G4 XR30 pulls 126W at AB+ so I'm assuming the final A8 spectrum will pull in the low 120s. Also worth noting that it certainly isn't weak, as it'll hit 190W with all sliders at 100%. That's respectable.

I have some more testing to do, including the PAR/spread map and an app how-to guide, but this light will absolutely grow coral. You just have to be comfortable with near-zero support and an app that's in Chinese.

Now this is what I was waiting for, I’m thinking I might pull the trigger. I was more afraid that what would show up was something far from what the add displayed. Clearly, its for real. It doesn’t appear to be a black box in disguise.

 

[telegraham]

Now this is what I was waiting for, I’m thinking I might pull the trigger. I was more afraid that what would show up was something far from what the add displayed. Clearly, its for real. It doesn’t appear to be a black box in disguise.

I'm just going to throw this out there, but I'd wait for the ReeFi Uno 2.0 Pro release. I have no affiliation, I've pre-ordered the light, and given my experience with the original Uno and Duo Extreme, you might give it a look.

 

[telegraham]

I feel like managing a Chinese app that potentially is loaded with malware and other crap is still a better option than using Mobius right now.

This made me laugh alone in my office.

 

[Fa Fa]

I haven't try A8 but I got A7. Their first very kessil A360 knock off. I run for 1 yr. Love the light. Serious quality in hardware but it's Abit hard to learn their apps in beginning but after a few time it's get easier.
I run 2 of A7 with 3 viparspectra for my 5x2x2
Just simple budget tank.

Did you ever try to measure par value for a7 ? I'm interested to get 1, but didn't get any real par value yet,

 

[Lowell Lemon]

This ripping off of products by the CCP is not funny nor should we do business with the likes of Alibaba and the other 40 thieves of the CCP. The theft of intellectual property is codified into Chinese law and business practices. You wonder why Red Sea has seam failures just look at their attempt to rip off German made Silicone for a possible answer. You are required to reveal the end use and specifications for components manufactured in China by the 40 thieves. This is why we have a chip shortage and why everything from jets to lights look like something designed and built in other countries. China is not a reliable business partner period and that is why I am not selling products made in China. About 10 years ago I was researching rimless tanks for import to the USA and as a result it was a no go period.

I recently was asked to install a complete kitchen and laundry room quartz counter from China. It was only $1200.00 U.S. Nothing fit the application and lots of modifications would be required to make it work. The cost of materials sold in the U.S. would cost over $5000 but at least it would look great and function like it should. I don’t feel sorry for the customer since he orders full house remodels from China and flips the homes at a big mark up with very sub-standard products made to look good but are much lower quality. His counter humped up a 1/4" at the center of the seams and the parts coming off the assembly line were off 1/2" at seam width. I would have scrapped the job and started over as not one in my customer list would accept such shoddy workmanship.

You get what you pay for period. If you want sub-standard keep on buying Chinese made products and start a thread to complain about it. Mike drop.

 

[Shooter6]

This ripping off of products by the CCP is not funny nor should we do business with the likes of Alibaba and the other 40 thieves of the CCP. The theft of intellectual property is codified into Chinese law and business practices. You wonder why Red Sea has seam failures just look at their attempt to rip off German made Silicone for a possible answer. You are required to reveal the end use and specifications for components manufactured in China by the 40 thieves. This is why we have a chip shortage and why everything from jets to lights look like something designed and built in other countries. China is not a reliable business partner period and that is why I am not selling products made in China. About 10 years ago I was researching rimless tanks for import to the USA and as a result it was a no go period.

I recently was asked to install a complete kitchen and laundry room quartz counter from China. It was only $1200.00 U.S. Nothing fit the application and lots of modifications would be required to make it work. The cost of materials sold in the U.S. would cost over $5000 but at least it would look great and function like it should. I don’t feel sorry for the customer since he orders full house remodels from China and flips the homes at a big mark up with very sub-standard products made to look good but are much lower quality. His counter humped up a 1/4" at the center of the seams and the parts coming off the assembly line were off 1/2" at seam width. I would have scrapped the job and started over as no one in my customer list would accept such shoddy workmanship.

You get what you pay for period. If you want sub-standard keep on buying Chinese made products and start a thread to complain about it. Mike drop.

Every electronic device sold in the U.S has Chinese parts in it. That's the state of the world

Know anything about pizza gate? No? Basically our politicians exported a huge section of U.S. electronics manufacturing Intel to China.

Most companies here import parts or just have the entire product manufactured there! Your ph, computer, most electronics in your car, tv,microwave,oven,fridge,washer,dryer ecr ect are built with or completely by Chinese products and factories.

The days of buy American is lost.

Clear out everything in your life with Chinese manufacturing then you can have such a negative pulpit.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Ah it is Shooter6....that says it all.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

The spectrum graph above looks like every other black box Chinese fixture in the last 12 years. Thin and dull. Come to think of it, the A8 Chinese box and the Neptune Sky spectrum graphs look near identical.