Electric Current in reef tank.

[Acrostick]

What effects if any does electric current have on tanks biofilter and water chemistry?

 

[anthonys51]

I had it I. My tank for over 12 months. It would come and go I finally bought the grounding probe. Couldn’t be happier. Tagging along to see but all my fish and corals seemed ok

 

[Paul B]

So far there is no evidence it effects anything but there are plenty of rumors.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Let me first clarify that we are talking about electric current and not electric voltage. Voltage without current does nothing to the aquarium chemistry or a biofilter. For example, dropping the end of a single live wire (say, made of gold to avoid concerns about simple corrosion of the wire in seawater) into an ungrounded tank will not do anything to chemistry or bacteria in a biofilter. You migth read a massive voltage betweent he tank water and a ground, but it has no chemistry effect.

OK, so now to flowing electric current.

There are two types of current flow. One is just ions moving around in the water as the result of an electric field. That has no effect on chemistry or a biofilter.

The second is true current flow through the tank. Electrons contact the water somewhere, those electrons do chemistry on the seawater, ions flow to and from an exit point, chemistry goes on again,a nd electrons leave the water.

SO at both points where the electric current first moves out of a metal (or other) conductor and into seawater and also where the current leaves the water, chemistry occurs. It doesn't much matter if the current is AC or DC. Chemistry occurs.

First, let's look at a case where the electrodes are inert (say, gold, platinum, graphite, or other unreactive materials). In that case, lots of chemistry takes place, but two main ones are:

2H2O + 2e- → H2 + 2OH- (this is what happens when electrons hit the water)

At the other side, where electrons are leaving the water and going on their way down the wire:

4H2O → 2O2 + 4H+ + 4e-
and
2Cl- → Cl2 + 2e-

So we have hydrogen (H2), oxygen (O2) and chlorine (Cl2) beuing made at the electrodes. The local effects on pH from the OH- being added can cause more chemistry, such as precipitation of calcium carbonate and magnesium hydroxide.

In a more real world example for a reef tank, with a broken device having a copper wire exposed to the water, the electricity flow will greatly drive release of copper (or other metals in the wire):

Cu(metal) ---> Cu++ + 2e-

So a lot of copper comes off of a hot copper wire put into a grounded tank.

I doubt any of this chemistry impacts a biofilter all that much unless it is very extensive, but certainly, chlorine and copper are very impactful to a reef tank.

 

[Acrostick]

The rEason I ask is this: 6 weeks ago my triton test test came back and all looked really good. As well as the corals looking great and tank happy as can be. 4 weeks ago coraline turning white and dying. 3 weeks,ago started losing sps. 3 to 6 every day or every other day. No pests, that was the first thing I checked and continue to look for. Water params checked almost everyday and all holding really stable. I always wear shoes when messing with my tank but Sunday didn't have any on on got a heck of a jolt. Checked for volts and had 72 volts in my tank. Fish and shrimp are fine and so are lps. The couple zoa I have stated close. Electrician coming today to work on my plugs. Truly frustrating watching these animals die.

 

[Acrostick]

Thank you Randy. This what I was afraid of. Sounds like I had current in the tank for a few weeks before I realized it. I truly feel bad for killing these amazing creatures.

 

[Paul B]

Checked for volts and had 72 volts in my tank.

72 volts in your tank is induced voltage and is in every tank with anything electric in it like a heater. Anything less than about 108 volts is induced just by being near electricity and is normal. When you walk under those high voltage power lines induced voltage is generated in your head. Those people with the purple mohawks walked under to many power lines.

70 volts is nothing, don't worry about it. It could be any voltage less than 108 or so. If it were 108 or so, that is line voltage from a broken heater or some other broken insulator and if you put your hand in the tank, you may get thrown across the room unless you have a GFCI.
There is no evidence "induced" voltage does anything. Your induced current is AC, not that it means anything, only AC will be induced but that is another topic that can go on for years. (I think you are reading voltage but what do I know?)
Just my opinion of course as I am wrong most of the time.

Randy is correct with his formulas, but that is for real electricity from the power plant, not induced voltage or current. Your electrician is a waste of money. I know because I have been a master electrician for almost fifty years now. (retired thankfully)

Good luck with your problem

 

[anthonys51]

Paul my friend who is anelectrician told me the same thing I think. I asked him why in the morning I would never got a little shock in my finger when I put it into the tank. ( mostly my finger with a cut). But at night when my lights where on I would get it. I unplugged all my equipment one by one at night and still shock persisted. I told him I think it’s the lights but how can it be since I hung them over the tank. He explained you have so much power going to your tank it’s causing it. Is that what he meant Want to inform you I have 5 tanks in a 700 system so lots of lights and pumps going on

 

[Neo Jeo]

Paul my friend who is anelectrician told me the same thing I think. I asked him why in the morning I would never got a little shock in my finger when I put it into the tank. ( mostly my finger with a cut). But at night when my lights where on I would get it. I unplugged all my equipment one by one at night and still shock persisted. I told him I think it’s the lights but how can it be since I hung them over the tank. He explained you have so much power going to your tank it’s causing it. Is that what he meant Want to inform you I have 5 tanks in a 700 system so lots of lights and pumps going on

Could that be static electricity? Carpet to the water in the winter?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Paul my friend who is anelectrician told me the same thing I think. I asked him why in the morning I would never got a little shock in my finger when I put it into the tank. ( mostly my finger with a cut). But at night when my lights where on I would get it. I unplugged all my equipment one by one at night and still shock persisted. I told him I think it’s the lights but how can it be since I hung them over the tank. He explained you have so much power going to your tank it’s causing it. Is that what he meant Want to inform you I have 5 tanks in a 700 system so lots of lights and pumps going on

Induced voltage and current flow works like this:

The air (or even vacuum) surrounding any operating electrical device (or a wire connected to the mains) will have an electric field around it. So when the bit of wire nearby has a net positive charge on it, the air nearby will perceive that charge and effectively experience an electric field.

When seawater is in such a field (perhaps meaning nothing more than a wire near or in the water), the ions in the seawater will tend to respond to it. Negatively charged ions will tend to move a bit toward a positive electric field, and positively charged ions will move away from it. In that way, the water tends to offset the electric field caused by the wire. It doesn't take much ion movement at all for there to be an induced voltage like this in the water, and that is what you measure with a voltmeter or even what causes a little current flow to your hand when you perceive a "shock" (assuming it is not an actual direct connection to the mains, which is a much more dangerous situation).)

 

[anthonys51]

Yes that’s what he tired to explain to me. . But being a simple old chef I didn’t know if he was speaking English or gibberish. . I would really only feel a little shock and it would mostly be when I had a cut on my finger.

 

[anthonys51]

Could that be static electricity? Carpet to the water in the winter?

No carpet in my Fish room only concert in basement and time in living room. All one system

 

[Paul B]

Randy explained it but he has more degrees than a thermometer and I am a lug nut so I may be able to explain it simpler.
The electric in your house is AC. (alternating current) That just means it goes back and forth in the wire. It also goes back and forth in your heater and lights. You don't have to know why it does that or why it doesn't get tired doing that, just that it does that. You also don't have to know if it is voltage, current or prune juice for this explanation.

The weird thing about electricity is that if there is a conductor near by, like a wire, the cut on your little finger or "seawater", electricity will be "induced" into that conductor or seawater or your head. (that is how a transformer works, but forget that for now)
So electricity gets induced, (or stolen) and goes into the sea water.

The voltage coming into your heater, lights, barcko lounger, TV, toaster, washing machine etc, is 120 volts (give or take 10 or 12 volts but that is not important either)

The electricity in your heater is right near your water, maybe a quarter of an inch away so some of the "electricity" gets induced into the water.

That tiny bit of induced electricity will not bother your fish or parameters because when you are not sticking the test probes into the water, (or your finger) that electricity does not get induced because it has no where to go and electricity needs someplace to go like a teenager on their way to the prom. When you are testing the induced voltage, the electricity goes into your meter and to the ground so you get nervous and post it here on a fish forum where you will get an unbelievably diverse bunch of theories on how this will somehow affect something even though every tank that is not lit by candles has induced electricity. Trust me.

Now I can get into ground probes, GFCIs, static electricity, Westinghouse, Edison, Tesler, AC, DC, capacitance, ohms, resistance, semi conductors, Henry Ford etc. But forget about all those things for now or you will get confused. Just go out to dinner and have some prune juice as I have gotten shocked so many times that my brains are about to fall out.

Now I will leave this thread never to post on it again because virtually all of these induced voltage threads go on for decades with every possible explanation imaginable. It will begin in about ten minutes and last until about 2027.

 

[anthonys51]

Randy explained it but he has more degrees than a thermometer and I am a lug nut so I may be able to explain it simpler.
The electric in your house is AC. (alternating current) That just means it goes back and forth in the wire. It also goes back and forth in your heater and lights. You don't have to know why it does that or why it doesn't get tired doing that, just that it does that. You also don't have to know if it is voltage, current or prune juice for this explanation.

The weird thing about electricity is that if there is a conductor near by, like a wire, the cut on your little finger or "seawater", electricity will be "induced" into that conductor or seawater or your head. (that is how a transformer works, but forget that for now)
So electricity gets induced, (or stolen) and goes into the sea water.

The voltage coming into your heater, lights, barcko lounger, TV, toaster, washing machine etc, is 120 volts (give or take 10 or 12 volts but that is not important either)

The electricity in your heater is right near your water, maybe a quarter of an inch away so some of the "electricity" gets induced into the water.

That tiny bit of induced electricity will not bother your fish or parameters because when you are not sticking the test probes into the water, (or your finger) that electricity does not get induced because it has no where to go and electricity needs someplace to go like a teenager on their way to the prom. When you are testing the induced voltage, the electricity goes into your meter and to the ground so you get nervous and post it here on a fish forum where you will get an unbelievably diverse bunch of theories on how this will somehow affect something even though every tank that is not lit by candles has induced electricity. Trust me.

Now I can get into ground probes, GFCIs, static electricity, Westinghouse, Edison, Tesler, AC, DC, capacitance, ohms, resistance, semi conductors, Henry Ford etc. But forget about all those things for now or you will get confused. Just go out to dinner and have some prune juice as I have gotten shocked so many times that my brains are about to fall out.

Now I will leave this thread never to post on it again because virtually all of these induced voltage threads go on for decades with every possible explanation imaginable. It will begin in about ten minutes and last until about 2027.

Thanks Paul b. I wasn’t really worried about the shock. Fish and corals been living and growing with it for past year. Just got a grounding probe because the shock when I put my finger in seemed to be getting strong and stronger over time as I added new frag tAnks to my system.

Ps I tend to bite my cuticles so I always have cuts on my hands