electrical idiot builds a controller - a reef pi build

[barcod21]

From the looks of your home brew system you will be a reef-pi expert in no time. You have a tinkerers gene I can tell.

I’ll start by saying that I am doing basically the same things with both boards, so both are fully functional. And I think they are both great options.

The reef pi pico baseboard from @theatrus is a work of art. It’s a beauty that should be appreciated. I would have covered it in clear epoxy so all visitors could gaze upon it’s exposed chips, but I didn’t want to put a nc-17 sticker on my tank.

All of the connectors are installed on the board. You attach your raspberry pi put them in the box that is precut for all plugs and turn it on. Very simple. It has the ph board integrated and the serial db9 connector to go to adj power strip. All in one. I don’t think I had to crimp even one pin connector for the functions on board. (Important - pin connectors are evil). And I have never had a failure or problem with anything preinstalled on the board. Once I put the lid onto the precut case I have never taken it back off.

it doesn’t have a pca9685 pwm board though. For things you want to control intensity on, you will need a break out box. My break out box has the 9685, some relays, and a power supply. And lots of pin connectors. And had lots of wiring problems to fix at different points of time.

the pi hat from @Michael Lane is, well, let’s say has a really nice personality. Your not going to want slather it in clear epoxy though. the board is made to be put into the center of an electrical box and then you run wires to case connectors of your choice (or to sub boards). It has the 9685 on the board already. the ph board is a separate sub board. The pi-hat is more flexible in that the all the connections are exposed.

my pi-hat case is large. It is filled with stuff. i have roughly 300,000 pin connectors (okay maybe 50). I have been inside many times to fix things I didn’t make right the first time. But I have never had a problem or had to fix anything on the board supplied by Mike. I would say the pico board is more reliable in a novices hand as it has less opportunity for a novice to make mistakes. But the pi-hat is more easily customized and is completely reliable in a more experienced hand.

I do think both options are good, and I recommend them!

I don’t know if they are still making the boards.
@theatrus are you still making and selling pico base boards?
@Michael Lane are you still making and selling reef pi-hats?

a third option that didn’t exist when i started mine is with robotank from @robsworld78. I don’t have direct experience but all the comments I’ve read have been gushingly positive. It seems he has a complete plug and play option and a diy board option.

Thanks Mikeneedsahobby, I apologize for the slow reply. Life is busy as always! The Michael Lane items are in stock at the moment but I have been looking at the Robotank and it is very intriguing. i like that it is in a nice neat package and in the end not much difference in costs. Import duties will probably add some though, I wish I knew how to get a good idea on how much to expect to have to pay since it comes from Canada.

That being said, my suspicion on the Robotank is that the PWM that is on-board is "comparable" to the PCA9685 PWM Driver, and that I wouldn't need to add the PCA9685 to the circuit. I would just connect the P channel mosfets between the Robotank and the Beamswork light. What a dilemma....Buy the Pi Hat and PH board now while they're in stock or try to research the Robotank some more and possibly be disappointed if I miss out on the Pi Hat / PH board while its in stock (If I determine the Robotank won't do something). Thanks for the extra stress! Haha, just kidding. I really appreciate your input on all of this.

 

[Mikeneedsahobby]

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Thanks Mikeneedsahobby, I apologize for the slow reply. Life is busy as always! The Michael Lane items are in stock at the moment but I have been looking at the Robotank and it is very intriguing. i like that it is in a nice neat package and in the end not much difference in costs. Import duties will probably add some though, I wish I knew how to get a good idea on how much to expect to have to pay since it comes from Canada.

That being said, my suspicion on the Robotank is that the PWM that is on-board is "comparable" to the PCA9685 PWM Driver, and that I wouldn't need to add the PCA9685 to the circuit. I would just connect the P channel mosfets between the Robotank and the Beamswork light. What a dilemma....Buy the Pi Hat and PH board now while they're in stock or try to research the Robotank some more and possibly be disappointed if I miss out on the Pi Hat / PH board while its in stock (If I determine the Robotank won't do something). Thanks for the extra stress! Haha, just kidding. I really appreciate your input on all of this.

its a tough decision. No matter which you choose you will make a good choice. I think the robotank has 8 pwm ports. But they can be switched to type of port. For my little tank I use 4 ports for doser and 2 ports for lights. On the big tank I have 8 doser ports and 6 light ports. So for my big tank I would need more controllable ports thank robotank has stock.

 

[robsworld78]

Thanks Mikeneedsahobby, I apologize for the slow reply. Life is busy as always! The Michael Lane items are in stock at the moment but I have been looking at the Robotank and it is very intriguing. i like that it is in a nice neat package and in the end not much difference in costs. Import duties will probably add some though, I wish I knew how to get a good idea on how much to expect to have to pay since it comes from Canada.

That being said, my suspicion on the Robotank is that the PWM that is on-board is "comparable" to the PCA9685 PWM Driver, and that I wouldn't need to add the PCA9685 to the circuit. I would just connect the P channel mosfets between the Robotank and the Beamswork light. What a dilemma....Buy the Pi Hat and PH board now while they're in stock or try to research the Robotank some more and possibly be disappointed if I miss out on the Pi Hat / PH board while its in stock (If I determine the Robotank won't do something). Thanks for the extra stress! Haha, just kidding. I really appreciate your input on all of this.

Hey barcod21, I think I got an email from you yesterday, the import duties stick out.

Just to clarify the controller uses the PCA9685 chip, 8 channels are for DC ports and the other 8 are selectable to 0-5v/0-10v PWM or 0-5v/0-10v Analog so yeah the P mosfets connect direct.

its a tough decision. No matter which you choose you will make a good choice. I think the robotank has 8 pwm ports. But they can be switched to type of port. For my little tank I use 4 ports for doser and 2 ports for lights. On the big tank I have 8 doser ports and 6 light ports. So for my big tank I would need more controllable ports thank robotank has stock.

I think it has enough ports for your large tank, it has 8 DC ports that could run dosing pumps unless yours are PWM controlled? The other 8 could be used lights.

 

[Mikeneedsahobby]

Just to clarify the controller uses the PCA9685 chip, 8 channels are for DC ports and the other 8 are selectable to 0-5v/0-10v PWM or 0-5v/0-10v Analog so yeah the P mosfets connect direct.



I think it has enough ports for your large tank, it has 8 DC ports that could run dosing pumps unless yours are PWM controlled? The other 8 could be used lights.

yep it does! It was just my lack of knowledge. This would work well for me.

 

[robsworld78]

yep it does! It was just my lack of knowledge. This would work well for me.

Well what are your waiting for lol, just kidding of course.

Also for the 8th dosing pump you would lose the feeder port, it's technically the same just a 3.3v pin.

 

[Mikeneedsahobby]

Well what are your waiting for lol, just kidding of course.

Also for the 8th dosing pump you would lose the feeder port, it's technically the same just a 3.3v pin.

Haha yep! Just need to convince the wife that I need a third tank first!

 

[robsworld78]

Haha yep! Just need to convince the wife that I need a third tank first!

Sorry can't help you there.

 

[Mikeneedsahobby]

Trolls is starting to fill up with fish. Residents - snow flake eel, blue spotted toby, one spot fox face, and tomini tang. There is also a blue throat trigger in quarantine in my basement.

 

[Mikeneedsahobby]

I’ve been embarrassed by goblins. It fell apart and looks bad. About 4 weeks ago black beard algae and green hair algae showed up. I had an over dose mishap and added montecarlo from the LFS at about the same time. Don't know which caused the problem. Regardless it is here. I’ve been fighting them since and losing. This weekend I took drastic measures and significantly reduced light intensity, duration, and minor element dosing. Hopefully it helps.

 

[Bigtrout]

I’ve been embarrassed by goblins. It fell apart and looks bad. About 4 weeks ago black beard algae and green hair algae showed up. I had an over dose mishap and added montecarlo from the LFS at about the same time. Don't know which caused the problem. Regardless it is here. I’ve been fighting them since and losing. This weekend I took drastic measures and significantly reduced light intensity, duration, and minor element dosing. Hopefully it helps.

Is ur co2 level steady? Bba thrives with lack of/ varying co2 levels

 

[Mikeneedsahobby]

Is ur co2 level steady? Bba thrives with lack of/ varying co2 levels

The first couple weeks I noticed bba I turned up the co2. The last two has been steady. I believe I am around 25ppm. Co2 is on a timer and pressure is good. 25ppm was two weeks ago and no changes since.

I calibrated my ph probe 2 weeks ago. I don’t think it was needed but I did it anyway. Now my ph doesn’t make sense and co2 calculation is off. I think my calibration fluid went bad. I have more on the way. Until then I don’t believe my ph reading. And I won’t touch the co2. Per the glass in the tank it is green.

my phosphate was up to 7.5 after the dosing mishap. I’ve been bringing it down. Now it is 4.5. I’m trying to get to 2-3. Nitrate has been running steady 5-10.

lights were running 100% 12hr diurnal. Now at 8 hr diurnal with blues at 50% intensity.

 

[Bigtrout]

From my reading on it, its worse to be in the middle, as in injecting co2 but not enough. 15ppm co2 is worse than a low tech no co2 tank or a 25ppm tank when it comes to BBA outbreaks. The other thing is a build up of detritus and organics. Sometimes that stuff hides among the forest of stems. Consensus is that fert levels dont cause it unless they caused your plants to stunt. Is the BBA on the plants or the wood, rocks, etc? Ive also noticed it likes the high flow areas of the aquarium.

Last year when i had my outbreak of BBA i tried everything. In desperation i did a 90 percent water change, and bang within 3 days it was dying off in clumps. It turns red and purple and eventually white when it dies.


Definitely fix your ph probe to get accurate readings. How are you calculating the 25ppm? With KH test and a ph drop?

I calculated mine with a glass of water sitting de-gassed and whatever reading that is I shoot for a .9 point ph drop when injecting co2. That gets me to around 25-30ppm

 

[Mikeneedsahobby]

Bba is on the plants. I don’t see any on the hardscape. It also doesn’t seem to be located by flow. Pretty uniformly spread on plants.

I could do a large water change if it doesn’t clear. I do small changes daily now. I’ve also been given advice to dose hydrogen peroxide. Idea is at the right dose bba is hurt but plants and fish are unaffected. Have you heard of this?

I calculated my ph using a calculator at hamzas reef. It uses ph and alkalinity as the inputs. If ph is wrong then the calc is wrong. Before calibration I was at 6.6 ph and 4.1 alk. This calculates to 26ppm co2. I also have a co2 checker in the tank. It is green. This lines up with~30ppm. After I calibrated ph now shows 6.06 and that day 4.6 alk and a calculated 156ppm co2. I don’t believe the numbers after I calibrated.

I don’t know the glass method of calculating co2.

 

[Ranjib]

in reef keeping i prefer the chemical means as the last option and almost always with side effects. We have GHA as our nemesis (dang algae!). best is to solve it biologically, either by a natural fish/snail population or by just have good nutrient export/balnace combined with real estate deprivation by corals, second best option is to do mechanical removal and then the last option is to go with fluconazole / reef flux etc.. chemical means.
Often time we advise a hybrid approach, start with mechanical then go biological means of prevention, for less severe cases and start with chemical + mechanical then go biological for more sever cases.

 

[Bigtrout]

Bba is on the plants. I don’t see any on the hardscape. It also doesn’t seem to be located by flow. Pretty uniformly spread on plants.

I could do a large water change if it doesn’t clear. I do small changes daily now. I’ve also been given advice to dose hydrogen peroxide. Idea is at the right dose bba is hurt but plants and fish are unaffected. Have you heard of this?

I calculated my ph using a calculator at hamzas reef. It uses ph and alkalinity as the inputs. If ph is wrong then the calc is wrong. Before calibration I was at 6.6 ph and 4.1 alk. This calculates to 26ppm co2. I also have a co2 checker in the tank. It is green. This lines up with~30ppm. After I calibrated ph now shows 6.06 and that day 4.6 alk and a calculated 156ppm co2. I don’t believe the numbers after I calibrated.

I don’t know the glass method of calculating co2.

I agree, peroxide as a last option. Its dosed with a syringe and supposed to turn to water and o2 in a short time...but.

If the BBA is on the plants then it usually means the plants were stunted/shocked, not healthy.

Hazmas reef is a great calculator but it fails to account for one simple thing. It assumes that KH is the only buffer. Throw in phosphates and the calcuation can be off.

Most planted tank people shoot for a 1 point ph drop from degassed water. In other words take a cup of tank water and let it sit in a glass for 24 hours. Measure the ph. Lets say its 7.3. Then you want to inject co2 at a rate that gives you a measurement of 6.3 when the tank reaches equilibrium. That gives you close to the 30ppm.

 

[Mikeneedsahobby]

Peroxide = last resort!

fix ph probe calibration then
measure ph of tank water in glass after 24 hr
Compare to tank ph with co2 on.
look for 1 ph drop.

I’ve also reduced light duration and blue light intensity. Reduced minor fertilizer dosing to bring down phosphate level.

I’m going to go slow and only look for changes at the end of the week.

 

[Bigtrout]

Sounds like a good plan!

 

[Mikeneedsahobby]

I received my new calibration fluid. The old fluid wasn't far off. about ~0.2 - 0.3 from the new fluid. My measured PH is even lower now 6.05. I swore this must be an error. Maybe the 2 point calibration is a bad method and it should be polynomial. Maybe I contaminated the fluids. Maybe ... IDK.
Checked everything and it looks accurate. 2 point is a valid calibration method. fluids are good. goblins are happy but holding on to their algae.

So if I use the Hamza calculation. My CO2 is over 100 ppm. This can't be right. I trust the alk measurement and now the PH measurement. So I am going with @Bigtrout . Something other than alk and CO2 is buffering my PH. The Hamza calc won't be accurate. I cleaned a glass in RODI then dried with a lint free towel. Now it is full of tank water and will sit for 24hrs. Then I'll compare the stale tank water PH to actual tank PH.

On the algae side. It is getting better this week. Certaintly I still have a lot, but the BBA thickness is going down and parts of the leaves of my plants are being exposed again. It was covering the leaves with a thick mat. Now it is just along the perimeter and a lot thinner.

 

[Bigtrout]

I received my new calibration fluid. The old fluid wasn't far off. about ~0.2 - 0.3 from the new fluid. My measured PH is even lower now 6.05. I swore this must be an error. Maybe the 2 point calibration is a bad method and it should be polynomial. Maybe I contaminated the fluids. Maybe ... IDK.
Checked everything and it looks accurate. 2 point is a valid calibration method. fluids are good. goblins are happy but holding on to their algae.

So if I use the Hamza calculation. My CO2 is over 100 ppm. This can't be right. I trust the alk measurement and now the PH measurement. So I am going with @Bigtrout . Something other than alk and CO2 is buffering my PH. The Hamza calc won't be accurate. I cleaned a glass in RODI then dried with a lint free towel. Now it is full of tank water and will sit for 24hrs. Then I'll compare the stale tank water PH to actual tank PH.

On the algae side. It is getting better this week. Certaintly I still have a lot, but the BBA thickness is going down and parts of the leaves of my plants are being exposed again. It was covering the leaves with a thick mat. Now it is just along the perimeter and a lot thinner.

Yes now that ph is reading accurately, you are looking for a relative ph drop of .8 to 1 when injecting co2. This translates to 20-30 ppm of co2.
By letting the glass sit the co2 will offgas and become at equilibrium with atmospheric co2. This is 3ppm in a normally ventilated house. The resulting ph is your starting point for the ph drop when injecting.

 

[Mikeneedsahobby]

tank water at 11:30am = 6.15. Stale water pulled yesterday = 7.33. Maybe too much Co2? or good because fish aren't affected?