Embracing a new concept...and freeing our minds from preconception. Not easy.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

By the way I always thought the best way for the removal of organics would be a dialysis approach...an alternative to dilution is the solution mentality...

I'm not sure of the benefit of doing that rather than a water change.

Small organics could be removed this way, but it would take a lot of dialysis fluid (at best, removing 50% of the organics would require 100% of the tank water volume in dialysis fluid), and so could not be more efficient than a water change (is less efficient, actually). It would also equilibrate every inorganic ion with the dialysis fluid if the pores were large enough for organics to pass.

 

[PmRg]

I'm using TRITON.... but not the full method check my tank thread it's a great method!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sweet Baby Jeebus Randy, I dang near spat out my cereal looking at those prices!

:lol:

Yes, it is so expensive that I've never used them. The only time I did such measurements was when I could use the machine free at work.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

One issue is the limit of detection for some of these trace elements.

Take copper, with a stated limit of detection of 1.2 to 3.5 ppb.

That's about ten times higher than the NSW value.

So one cannot use this method to dose up to or maintain the NSW value, even if your tank started lower. About all you can know is whether your tank has more than ten times the natural level, or not.

Still useful, but not in the simplistic way of matching NSW.

 

[hart24601]

This is really neat and I am excited to see how it plays out. Now get Randy on board with it and I will be very, very excited!

 

[reggaedrummin]

I'm quite interested in this. The concept of water changes has never made sense to me. It feels like guess work and frankly, quite tedious and wasteful. I'm not sure that we're exactly there yet, but I welcome the day when I can eliminate water changes.

 

[uniquecorals]

I just have to say that I am really happy with the spirit of this discussion...I had this fear of it degenerating into one of those contentious, devisive discussions with people bringing in all sorts of weird biases, accusations, and taunts. You're a great group, and I really appreciate the participation! Randy, it's been awesome having you aboard to give us the low down on a number of things...It's so easy for us laymen to get caught up in misinformed, jargon-laden, assumption-tainted discourses, which is exactly what we'd like to avoid here!

Intersting you commented on copper, as that was a surprise in some of our tests...


I think that there is so much that we take for granted in this hobby; it's really interesting to get some concise data upon which to base our knowledge, rather than just assume. We tend to do it a lot in the hobby, I think! I hope that this type of stuff spurs more of us to crack open a chemistry textbook and do some learning, to make sense of some of this!

 

[mike007]

Okay this sounds logical if it really works. My question is that I am confused about is the water changes are they saying they never do them at all? I had talked with some experts at Macna about reduced water changes. This is very interesting.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy, it's been awesome having you aboard to give us the low down on a number of things...It's so easy for us laymen to get caught up in misinformed, jargon-laden, assumption-tainted discourses, which is exactly what we'd like to avoid here!

Intersting you commented on copper, as that was a surprise in some of our tests...
!

Thanks.

Surprised that you saw a lot, or didn't see any?

 

[uniquecorals]

Okay this sounds logical if it really works. My question is that I am confused about is the water changes are they saying they never do them at all? I had talked with some experts at Macna about reduced water changes. This is very interesting.

Again, this is the area that I have the hardest time getting my head around...It's really unknown territory for me, the water change addict! Relying on other forms of nutrient export makes sense in theory...I will see how it works in practice...Triton profers doing water changes if you have a special need, like a clam spawning, a large animal death; stuff like that. However, they do not recommend regular water changes, for the reasons previously discussed...It will be very interesting to see how this works long term!

Scott

 

[uniquecorals]

Thanks.

Surprised that you saw a lot, or didn't see any?

Actually surprised that we had a really high level of copper out of the mains water, pre RO/DI...

And, surprised that the copper level was undetectable in our raceways...As you mentioned, apparently the limit of detection is pretty high!

Man, I love this stuff...LOL:neutral:

 

[tmg1286]

Another interesting article Scott. Thanks. By the way, have a safe trip, and bring us back "the facts."

 

[uniquecorals]

Another interesting article Scott. Thanks. By the way, have a safe trip, and bring us back "the facts."

Thanks, we're hoping to glean some good information to share...And we will share what we learn, for sure! Looking forward to more discussion.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Actually surprised that we had a really high level of copper out of the mains water, pre RO/DI...

And, surprised that the copper level was undetectable in our raceways...As you mentioned, apparently the limit of detection is pretty high!

Man, I love this stuff...LOL:neutral:

When folks say tap water is good for their tank, and so others should try it, you can respond with that info!

 

[uniquecorals]

When folks say tap water is good for their tank, and so others should try it, you can respond with that info!

Yeah...L.A. tapwater is a real horror story! Good news: RO/DI manufacturers have complete job security! LOL

 

[mike007]

Not to mention the phosphate additives to preserve the city mains.

 

[Acro]

Very interesting read so far. Would love to know how detritus is dealt with as I would be able to replace my live rock with mounds of fish poop instead lol

 

[berbotty]

I rarely do a wc and when I do my corals more importantly my sps hate it. My RBTA disappears for a week and generally things look terrible. I never have nitrate of phosphates and feed heavy. 200 gallon total water, my skimmer is rated for 500

 

[uniquecorals]

Isn't the method a continual water change?
Xyz dosed and the same amount removed either via skimming or removed via a doser?

Wow...that's a cool way of looking at it. A "deconstructed water change", perhaps? Hmm...

Dang, now you're getting me thinking even more (a scary proposition...). The question, I suppose, is weather you could precisely match export to import or consumption..arghh...

Thoughts on this concept, anyone?

 

[uniquecorals]

Very interesting read so far. Would love to know how detritus is dealt with as I would be able to replace my live rock with mounds of fish poop instead lol

Well, that's the extreme,right? LOL

I have long felt that detritus is not all that bad, if not accumulating in excessive amounts...With a group pif detritivorous fishes (Ie, Ctenochaetus Tangs and maybe some Centropyge Angels) and inverts, this could be mitigated to some extent. Ehsan favors a shallow sand bed (like 2cm)...Again, I'll get more clarification and make some firsthand observations next week...Good stuff!