Ethanol/ Vodka Dosing Potentially Harming LPS Coral

[brayden2980]

Hello, I have been using 2ml daily of %95.5 ethanol in a 450 gallon set up. When introducing this dosage into the return pump in the sump, within ten minutes my elegance coral shriveled up and took a week to return to normalcy my fox coral also was possibly disturbed from this too as he receded when dosing as well. Is this a common problem? Water parameters are stable and haven't been an issue.

 

[brayden2980]

Corrections: It is %99.5 and although they are the same, I will specify that the bottle says "Ethyl Alcohol"

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Corrections: It is %99.5 and although they are the same, I will specify that the bottle says "Ethyl Alcohol"

Can you show the label? Was it denatured?

A small amount of ethanol should not have a rapid problematic effect like that.

 

[brayden2980]

It is denatured.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If I am reading the fine print correctly, it is denatured with t-butyl alcohol. I would not expect the small amount present to be any issue, but I do not recall seeing anyone dose t-butyl alcohol, so I'm not sure what effect it might have.

 

[brayden2980]

I

If I am reading the fine print correctly, it is denatured with t-butyl alcohol. I would not expect the small amount present to be any issue, but I do not recall seeing anyone dose t-butyl alcohol, so I'm not sure what effect it might have.

I was curious about the t-butyl as well. It’s a very small amount in this product but when I researched it it didn’t seem to be harmful in any way and is present in water sometimes as well

 

[brayden2980]

Someone in my accidental duplicate post asked the purpose for carbon dosing.
I’m trying to increase bacteria colony size for coral growth along with maintaining nutrients to not rely on physical filtration methods. I currently only run a refugium, carbon dosing, and skimming.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If it were my system, I'd assume it was coincidence, or at the least, something that is not going to be a big problem if restarted slowly, and restart dosing at a much lower dose and ramp up if all goes well.

 

[Miami Reef]

Someone in my accidental duplicate post asked the purpose for carbon dosing.
I’m trying to increase bacteria colony size for coral growth along with maintaining nutrients to not rely on physical filtration methods. I currently only run a refugium, carbon dosing, and skimming.

I would switch to vinegar. Corals and many reef organisms can directly consume acetate. It is a highly processed organic in the oceans, so dosing it would be very natural.

Vinegar can grow bacteria, possibly more varieties. It’s great for filter feeders etc.

FWIW, the degradation of organics is a big process in the ocean, and is entirely natural. Acetate (the organic in vinegar) is thought to be the largest turnover organic in the ocean, and may be the most common organic in sediment pore water.

Acetate has many uses in organisms.

It can be oxidized with O2 to give energy plus CO2 and bicarbonate.

it can also be used as a building block to make larger biomolecules. Fatty acids are made from acetate as a building block, for example.

 

[brayden2980]

If it were my system, I'd assume it was coincidence, or at the least, something that is not going to be a big problem if restarted slowly, and restart dosing at a much lower dose and ramp up if all goes well.

That’s what I thought. Especially when I stopped for the week and started again at half dose and the problem wasn’t as big. My phosphates were slightly elevated last time as well and might’ve just made them more sensitive to this

 

[brayden2980]

I would switch to vinegar. Corals and many reef organisms can directly consume acetate. It is a highly processed organic in the oceans, so dosing it would be very natural.

Vinegar can grow bacteria, possibly more varieties. It’s great for filter feeders etc.

I was warry of using vinegar because of its affect on ph as I just made lots of efforts to raise it. I will consider trying that or making a mix of the two to see if that works better and the corals like it

 

[Miami Reef]

I was warry of using vinegar because of its affect on ph as I just made lots of efforts to raise it. I will consider trying that or making a mix of the two to see if that works better and the corals like it

Vinegar and vodka have the same exact pH lowering effect. Vodka is 8 times stronger than vokda

So 1mL of vodka has an equal pH decrease as 8mL of vinegar.

 

[brayden2980]

I

Vinegar and vodka have the same exact pH lowering effect. Vodka is 8 times stronger than vokda

So 1mL of vodka has an equal pH decrease as 8mL of vinegar.

Interesting. I didn’t know that. I’ll experiment over the next few months which my tank responds better to and make a separate thread with the results

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I

Interesting. I didn’t know that. I’ll experiment over the next few months which my tank responds better to and make a separate thread with the results

We cover it here:

Nitrates 100+ppm, Need help with Dosing Vodka

Instant Ocean, not Reef Crystals. They did give you a free box of RC. You can buy a 5 year supply of baking soda and driveway melt for $20 if you want to make your IO look like RC. Earlier in the week, the RC was 60-62, IIRC, so it has gone back up.

www.reef2reef.com

from it:

The overall pH drop in a closed system should be the same for vinegar and vodka metabolism since the same amount of CO2 is formed from each singe molecule, but vinegar has it drop immediately (from dissociation of the acetic acid) and less later (from production of CO2), while vodka has it all spread out later (making many folks not even notice it).

CH3CH2OH (vodka) + 3O2 --> 2CO2 + 3H2O

CH3CO2H (vinegar) + 2O2 --> 2CO2 + 2H2O

If we rewrite the vinegar equation in steps, we see that while the H+ release instantly drops pH, the subsequent conversion of the acetate to CO2 only produces half the amount of CO2:

CH3CO2H --> H+ + CH3CO2- (that lowers pH instantly by one H+ per acetic acid))

then we oxidize the acetate:

CH3CO2- + 2O2 --> 1CO2 + 1 HCO3- + 1 H2O

That oxidation has only one CO2 added, instead of 2. The HCO3- does not have much effect on pH since it mostly stays as bicarbonate.

Thus, half of the vinegar pH drop is shown instantly, and about half is shown later when CO2 is made, while vodka does it all later.