Experience Doesn't = Facts

[johnanddawn]

IMO almost all reefing knowledge is anecdotal - very few reefers even come close to true experimentation with a single controled variable therefore all comments and advice are based on personal experiences.
That however does not negate those experiences but it does however leave a lot of room for alternate explanations and interpretations.

When I share my experiences with people I say what I think and move on... I rarely repost in defense of my opinion even if someone directly challenges it

When someone posts some advice, its just like anything else, you have to be able to evaluate their comments

I usually find it quite easy to discriminate between those with true knowledge and experience and those that are simply restating something they read somewhere.

When I see someone who has an awesome looking tank or build thread and they post comments about their husbandry strategies - I tend to pay attention. It doesn't mean I'm going to change what I have found to work for me, but I do listen

Almost all the things that we feel to be common knowledge to reef tanks started many years ago as someone's personal experiences and trial and error. We all learn from each other

 

[Mhsbrian]

Fair enough, but I think it's condescending to call new aquarists 'kids'. Yes some new to the hobby are know-it-alls who don't know anything, but everyone was a beginner at some point. Just saying.

I've had these kind of run ins with a LFS owner, been incthw hobby for 25 years and he can't stand that I use products he doesn't recommend and they "just can't" be good for my tank. I have a life reed setup and he had the gal to say Jeff at life reef (who has been building sumps refugiums and skimmers for well over 20 years ) sold a bad product that targets inexperienced reefers. I just about had enough when I heard that.

Point being, whatever the hobby or train of thought you have people that are confident in their reason and their choices and experience in whatever will be militant to defend it.

 

[pickupman66]

kids = those under the age of 18. the term kids is very different from Noob. :-)

on another forum (yea, i forum surf) there was a kid who had been reefkeeping for 6 months. his tank was blah to say the least (my Opinion here) and he was spouting off things he read as if he wrote the articles. even wrote an article and all about some subject that was so blatantly wrong and full of mis-information (it was obvious like calling something white that was black) yet when folks corrected his mis-information he argued it like he was the discoverer of the information. it took all I could not to say anything negative. I now just ignore those threads. there are these types everywhere.

Fortunately, this community is very good at letting folks speak their opinion and for the most part, folks dont get bashed or even banned for speaking out against the grain or the so called "experts".

 

[Scooter90254]

There are very few facts in reef keeping. If you remember that there's no reason to fight with anyone.

There are exceptions to every rule.

 

[cdness]

There are facts in this hobby but they are few and far between:

* Saltwater fish need saltwater to survive
* Saltwater on open wounds hurts like heck
* Photosynthetic corals require light to survive
* Fish need to eat food, which in turns requires them to poop
* Nutrients need to be exported out of the aquarium

Opinions:
* Skimmer vs fuge vs turf scrubber vs water changes
* MH vs VHO vs T-5 vs LED vs full spectrum LED
* Large tank vs nano tank
* Cover vs open top vs screen top vs canopy

However what we ALL sometimes fail to see is that along with the fact and opinion statements there is this thing called probability. Many things people consider facts in this hobby are merely a higher probability to reproduce the result they are talking about. Probability is just a statistic and anyone who has ever worked with statistics knows that if the right equation is built, you can make the statistic "prove" anything you want it to. Because of this, all statistics must be taken with a grain of salt knowing that while the numbers say one thing, there are the outliers in the mix that have been removed from the equation to support the statistic.

Do carpet nems eat fish? Yes they can. Will they eat all your fish? Probably not, but the slower moving fish may get eaten. Are there ways to avoid fish getting eaten? Yes and no as they are opportunistic feeders, but if they are kept well fed, they may not try to catch a living fish... What's the probability of getting a fish eaten by a carpet nem? I guess you'd have to get a poll started and see what the statistics bring back...

But to end this post, all you Chevy guys out there, FORD IS THE BEST!!!! LOL I had to sorry ;)

 

[Mike J.]

I was condescending all the way through your post until the end. Now, I want to argue - CHEVY. LOL

 

[Mhsbrian]

I will join in the derail of this topic. You guys can keep your ford and Chevy, I'll keep my Tesla .

 

[Liquid360]

Oh come on! That's an unfair comparison! Tesla? That's like me saying Ford, Chevy, or Porsche.

 

[McAllyn]

WHEN your Tesla breaks down, we'll load it up in my TUNDRA and get you where you need to go!

:bigsmile:

Mac

 

[Trex]

You butt heads with people cause your always trying to stir the pot, take peoples posts as advice and quit trying to argue all the time.

Yep.

And I am one of the people that this thread is about. BTW -- I stated S. haddonis and not "carpets" -- If you are going to take a shot at me, at least get your info correct.

Do you really think that a call out thread is going to help things? Just like making an inappropriate comment (( that I had to edit out -- this is a family friendly site )) towards me didn't help at all.

Why not just stop with the call out posts and threads?

 

[Eienna]

I listen to all advice I am given, but then I strain it through my "bull" filter (goldfish in a 5g, etc), and then decide whether to try it and if it may be right for me and my tank.

 

[robby2782]

Yep.

And I am one of the people that this thread is about. BTW -- I stated S. haddonis and not "carpets" -- If you are going to take a shot at me, at least get your info correct.

Do you really think that a call out thread is going to help things? Just like making an inappropriate comment (( that I had to edit out -- this is a family friendly site )) towards me didn't help at all.

Why not just stop with the call out posts and threads?

In fairness to him, you like calling people out too. Isn't that exactly what you're doing here?

 

[Trex]

In fairness to him, you like calling people out too. Isn't that exactly what you're doing here?

I am not the one that started this thread.

Have I ever started a thread calling out any member?

 

[Eienna]

You know, it's not just "opinion." It wasn't that long ago that our understanding of reefs and reef tanks evolved to the point that they could be successfully kept by home aquarists. That understanding is still developing at a rapid pace, which is bound to lead to conflict and confusion. Nearly any experiment is based on aassumptions that came before, which may or may not have been correct in the first place because they are also based on assumptions.

 

[Liquid360]

Look TREX... I've tried making peace with you many times. Every time... it's as though you're making an effort to not get along. We have SOOO much in common!! You misconstrue what I say and then refuse to hear it when I apologize. Ill say no more on the issue with you specifically. I'd love to chat with should u ever feel like it.

 

[Liquid360]

Oh and TREX... you're making assumptions that I'm speaking about you. I'm not.

 

[Trex]

Look TREX... I've tried making peace with you many times. Every time... it's as though you're making an effort to not get along. We have SOOO much in common!! You misconstrue what I say and then refuse to hear it when I apologize. Ill say no more on the issue with you specifically. I'd love to chat with should u ever feel like it.

You keep saying that, and nothing changes. We both know what you said to me.

What is the old saying, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice.....

 

[Liquid360]

Sorry you feel that way. Again I wasn't talking about you. Nobody's forcing you to address me. You do know there is an "ignore" feature?
Ps. I have no idea what you're talking about... and honestly at this point I don't care much. Take care.

 

[Liquid360]

Back to the topic guys/gals? Sorry about that!

 

[shred5]

I keep butting heads with people who have had certain experiences and based upon those experiences they draw conclusions they then believe to be facts. Specifically they claim carpets will always consume your fish. Clown fish can't be kept more than two in a tank. They immediately discount my own experience. I'm ALWAYS careful to say "in my experience" and "others have had very different experiences". Yet they continue to fight claiming opinions to be facts. I'm not sure why but it angers me greatly. People who believe their own experience dictates facts... it's ego in all its glory. The arrogance involved in claiming your way is the best way is just irritating in the extreme. In this hobby there a million paths to the same place. Let others find their way and share our experiences but don't go around spouting opinions disguised as facts.

This sound like what you do from reading your posts maybe this is why you butt heads especially with people who are very respected in this hobby.