External overflow fail safe

[Reefing_addiction]

My tank is a 16gallon Biocube. Due to living in an apartment this is what I have room for. I want to bring more stability to my tank and adding a sump I believe is this best way by adding more water volume.

So, I’m planning to buy a Fiji 20 sump (I like this one better than the smaller ones as it offers a spot for a refugium as well) I will have to do an external overflow. I plan on using a cpr external overflow with an air lifter.
I want to run my return pump on an outlet with a float switch that would turn it off IF the overflow quits working for any reason.

Where would I put this float switch though? In the sump is what I was thinking. That way if the water level drops below normal operational level it will kill the return pump.

Here is a link to the Switch , Sump, and Overflow .

I can’t drill my tank. So a normal overflow is out of the question.

Another question is I have an ATO, where do I place that float switch at?

Im trying to get all my duckies in a row before my purchase.

thank you for you help.

 

[Daddy-o]

Pure genius! Both switches in the sump. Make sure your sump can handle the amount of water coming back if the return pump is shut off.

 

[Tamberav]

I am not sure how you could have an ATO and a float switch to kill the pump if the water gets to low? Because the ATO would kick on and fill the sump which would keep the other float switch from killing the pump.

I guess if you used an ATO that pumps very slow, like a aqualifer or such it would never keep up with the return and the water should still drop fast enough even with the ATO on.

I would also think since the float switch is under water it would be subject to fail more and get stuck since bacteria and other organisms/sponges could grow on it... and not save the flood. So you would want keep an eye on it.

The biocube is drillable as I have seen people drill it unless you just don't want to for other reasons.

 

[Daddy-o]

I run 2 of the CPR boxes. Weekly I take a paper clip and clear the hole on top. Seems to stop most issues. I didnt look at you exact switch but it might "cycle" as the water back flows into the sump.
Cheers! Mark

 

[Daddy-o]

And as @Tamberav mentioned the ATO pump would keep pumping. So if the overflow stopped working, the ATO would kick on, then the return would turn off, water backflows into the sump, ATO shuts off, return pump turns on (but with a little more water in system thanks to ATO) and it would continue this cycle til you intervened or the ATO ran dry and made a mess of your floor?

 

[Tamberav]

He would have to set a condition so it stays off and doesn't turn back on automatically. With a controller?

 

[Uncle99]

I put my ATO on a multi timer $20 Amazon.
It comes on every 4 hours for 1 minute.
Not possible to overflow like this.

 

[HuduVudu]

My tank is a 16gallon Biocube. Due to living in an apartment this is what I have room for. I want to bring more stability to my tank and adding a sump I believe is this best way by adding more water volume.

So, I’m planning to buy a Fiji 20 sump (I like this one better than the smaller ones as it offers a spot for a refugium as well) I will have to do an external overflow. I plan on using a cpr external overflow with an air lifter.
I want to run my return pump on an outlet with a float switch that would turn it off IF the overflow quits working for any reason.

Where would I put this float switch though? In the sump is what I was thinking. That way if the water level drops below normal operational level it will kill the return pump.

Here is a link to the Switch , Sump, and Overflow .

I can’t drill my tank. So a normal overflow is out of the question.

Another question is I have an ATO, where do I place that float switch at?

Im trying to get all my duckies in a row before my purchase.

thank you for you help.

Do not use these overflow boxes they will break siphon and starve your sump. Causing your pump to run dry and if you are dosing then that could be less than fun if you have a sump with a refugium. I really wish they would stop selling these things because they never tell you about the siphon break part and how bad it is nor do they tell you about matching the flow. Yes I know about the lifter part, but the more complexity you add the more likely there are to be unexpected failure points. Also there is a balancing act you must perform to ensure the siphon is matched to the return ... really just avoid this. Really.

I don't know for what reason that you can't drill your tank but if it is out of the question then I would save your money and work to buy a tank that you can provide a proper overflow with. I can't emphasize enough how painful siphon overflows are and how they should be avoided like the plague.

 

[Reefing_addiction]

I put my ATO on a multi timer $20 Amazon.
It comes on every 4 hours for 1 minute.
Not possible to overflow like this.

Ok so that’s what I’ll do. I have a tunze nano ato. So maybe I’ll set it up to run twice a day with a timer. In the morning and at night when I’m usually home.

 

[Tamberav]

I used a HOB overflow for a few years and it never broke siphon. The only problem I had was that it didn't have a lid and a large turbo snail once got inside the tube and slowed the flow and almost caused a flood that way.

The clear tubes grow a lot of algae from the ambient light and that snail was on a mission!

 

[HuduVudu]

I used a HOB overflow for a few years and it never broke siphon. The only problem I had was that it didn't have a lid and a large turbo snail once got inside the tube and slowed the flow and almost caused a flood that way.

the clear tubes grow a lot of algae from the ambient light and that snail was on a mission!

And your lucky it didn't and this is precisely what I am talking about. Better to do it right than to cry about your loss. IMO.

 

[Reefing_addiction]

I used a HOB overflow for a few years and it never broke siphon. The only problem I had was that it didn't have a lid and a large turbo snail once got inside the tube and slowed the flow and almost caused a flood that way.

The clear tubes grow a lot of algae from the ambient light and that snail was on a mission!

I was thinking to not go with clear tubes. And the cpr overflow uses black acrylic where the water is siphoned out of tank to also reduce algae. I believe it also has a lid to keep critters out.

 

[Reefing_addiction]

And your lucky it didn't and this is precisely what I am talking about. Better to do it right than to cry about your loss. IMO.

Some people as myself can’t do it any other way.

unless you’d like to come over and drill my tank for me.And guarantee you won’t break it. I can’t get a bigger tank. It’s cheaper for me to do this this way. As much time as I spend watching my tank I can keep the airlifted line clean of salt creep as part of my weekly maintenance.

the entire point of my post was to determine how to make the system work and instal fail safes.

have You personal experienced a problem?

 

[Uncle99]

Ok so that’s what I’ll do. I have a tunze nano ato. So maybe I’ll set it up to run twice a day with a timer. In the morning and at night when I’m usually home.

That’s perfect.

Use the nano sensors as normal, plug the nano into the timer


Just turn off the ATO for 12 hours....then plug in and count the seconds it takes to fill.
Then use that time +15-20 seconds as the “ON” time, every 12 hours.

$20 bucks piece of mind and better sleep

 

[Reefing_addiction]

I am not sure how you could have an ATO and a float switch to kill the pump if the water gets to low? Because the ATO would kick on and fill the sump which would keep the other float switch from killing the pump.

I guess if you used an ATO that pumps very slow, like a aqualifer or such it would never keep up with the return and the water should still drop fast enough even with the ATO on.

I would also think since the float switch is under water it would be subject to fail more and get stuck since bacteria and other organisms/sponges could grow on it... and not save the flood. So you would want keep an eye on it.

The biocube is drillable as I have seen people drill it unless you just don't want to for other reasons.

I’m terrified of drilling it. That and that means emptying the tank out completely. And again I’m not confident in drilling it.
Maybe I’ll keep thinking about it. If I break it though I have to buy a new tank. Which currently I cannot afford.

 

[Daddy-o]

I have only had 4 tank overflows with my CPR boxes.

 

[HuduVudu]

unless you’d like to come over and drill my tank for me.And guarantee you won’t break it.

More than happy too ... doubt you live near me though. Depending on the cube I doubt that it is made of glass even if it is then no worries the diamond hole saws are really good. I drilled 8 holes in my 65 gallon without any problem.

I can’t get a bigger tank.

I didn't suggest a bigger tank in fact I totally understand your plight living in a small space and not having a lot of room to work with. You can get the size of of tank that you currently have with better mechanics so that if you want you can add an overflow. There are many tanks out there and even if you don't like those you can get custom.

It’s cheaper for me to do this this way.

Yup it is. In the short run it is always cheaper. I have made this mistake more time than I can count. Ask yourself this, how much do I have in livestock and if I have to replace it would it have been worth it. Also what if you get an overflow or your sump starves out. Sorry it is the engineer in me that looks for the way that things can fail not the way things can work because it is very easy to create working solutions.

As much time as I spend watching my tank I can keep the airlifted line clean of salt creep as part of my weekly maintenance.

It is when you are not watching that things happen, plus you are only looking for the things that you know. It is the unknown unknowns that get you in this hobby every single time.

the entire point of my post was to determine how to make the system work and instal fail safes.

You can get a working system for sure and it looks like you have found a path, but working does not mean safe. I make working systems all of the time and then throw them out because they become unsafe or I see the weakness that could cause catastrophe. I heavily favor simple bullet proof solutions.

have You personal experienced a problem?

Yes, and in the trash went the "cheap" solution.

 

[HuduVudu]

I’m terrified of drilling it. That and that means emptying the tank out completely. And again I’m not confident in drilling it.
Maybe I’ll keep thinking about it. If I break it though I have to buy a new tank. Which currently I cannot afford.

Is your tank glass?

 

[HuduVudu]

@dyerrm ... I have an idea.

Depending on what you are trying to do with a sump, you can accomplish almost all of that with a HOB. Last I checked CPR makes some nice refuguims that are HOB. You can get HOB skimmers (I have one). I am sure that pretty much anything that you are trying to do you can do it with an HOB.

No drilling no problems and safe to deal with.

 

[Duncan Tse]

What you can do is maybe plug one of these extension cables to the switch to kill both your pump and ato at the same time

The jebao pumps actually come with their own float switch too so if the water levels gets too low then it'll cut the power to the pump.

Having a float switch in the sump and in the display tank will give you more reassurance.